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  •  No, you are wrong. We can UBC without (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DavidMS

    any registration, and I have no idea how you can claim otherwise, so I'll let you explain.

    “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

    by jeff in nyc on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:31:55 PM PST

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    •  Please explain how it can work without (0+ / 0-)

      registration.
      I explained how I see it can be avoided.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:35:55 PM PST

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      •  The gun is not what is checked: the buyer (0+ / 0-)

        is checked. It may ALSO be true that a gun may be put through the system, but the Background Check is on the Buyer, not the gun.

        “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

        by jeff in nyc on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:37:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  But if a gun is sold privately (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PsychoSavannah

          there is no record that there is a transaction, so there is nothing that makes either buyer or seller submit to the background check and no authority is the wiser because there's no record of the sale. One or the other of them would have to voluntarily invoke the background check.
          That'll happen the same day they tell the State that $2000 changed hands for that gun and by the way, here's the sales tax from the buyer and the income tax from the seller.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:45:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  ? ? ? dude I don't know what to tell you. That's (0+ / 0-)

            what the debate is about.

            “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

            by jeff in nyc on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:47:13 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  SO you are saying that private sellers WILL (0+ / 0-)

              run background checks? Voluntarily?
              What's their motivation?

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:51:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Look, you haven't done any reading at all (0+ / 0-)

                about the issue, so I'm not continuing this discussion. We want to stop the loophole that allows those sales. The motivation is, you will go to jail if you don't do it. I am done with you.

                “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

                by jeff in nyc on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:54:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Look: if you illegally sell anything, there is (0+ / 0-)

            no record, and there is no background check. I am talking about legally selling guns. You realize that you can break the law without reporting your activity to the police, right?

            “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

            by jeff in nyc on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:49:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Private sales are legal (0+ / 0-)

              That IS the gunshow loophole.
              Are you saying make all private sales illegal? All guns have to be sold only by licensed dealers? Because that's a MUCH bigger fight than UBC.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 08:56:17 PM PST

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          •  For purposes of self preservation, (0+ / 0-)

            I have never sold a firearm privately without having both myself and the buyer fill out and sign transfer documents.  No, the documents don't go to a government agency, but they sure as heck end up in my safe deposit box, just in case the buyer or some future buyer (or thief) commits a crime with the weapon.  It's basically the same form I use when selling a vehicle, above and beyond filling out the stub at the bottom of the title for the DMV, and for the same reason -- self protection and proof of non-ownership in case of later mishap.  

            A seller of any potentially dangerous item would be a fool to not keep a dated, verifiable record of the transfer.

            That said, I support the idea of background checks, much as we have today when buying from dealers, with added access to mental health records for those doing the checking.  That, much more so than restricting types of firearms, would reduce the number of mass shootings in this country.  How to allow the DHS/ATF idiots access to mental health records without serious privacy violations is another issue I haven't very thoroughly thought through yet.

            Still, a large portion of the mass shootings of late have involved shooters who have demonstrated repeated signs of instability prior to the tragedies.  In some cases, such at Ft. Hood, the government very badly failed to follow up on early warnings; in others, such as Aurora, mental health professionals dropped the ball.  In Newtown, the mother messed up by allowing the kid access to her weapons, obviously, and it makes me wonder if part of a background check should involve asking whether a buyer has any mentally ill persons living in his or her home.  That, again, may involve privacy violations.  It's not going to be an easy fix, no matter how we approach it.

            One thing is certain, and that is that hyperbole will fix nothing, no matter who is hypering the bole.  

            The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool. Some of my best friends are Catholics, really.

            by Not A Bot on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 09:17:15 PM PST

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            •  Also have to make buyers responsible for their gun (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Not A Bot

              To many straw buyers getting guns for people that are not supposed to have them. If I buy a gun and give it to my brother Joe, and he loses it, but doesn't tell me. Someone finds it and shoots someone..... well the gun gets traced back to you... so you are responsible. You should not give your guns to your brother. Hope you get the drift of this...

          •  There can be no private sales .... (0+ / 0-)

            I have a old gun, you want to buy it, we run down to the gun shop and they run a check, we pay $5 and then you can buy my old gun.
            Got to have a gun database.

    •  Who will monitor these private sales and make sure (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CwV

      background checks are conducted?

      •  No one. (0+ / 0-)

        jeff in NYC seems to be saying that there should be no private sales. I assume that means if you have a gun you don't want any more, either you are stuck with it or you can sell it to a dealer. I can't see that working out, the guns will simply be sold illegally since there's no way to tell who owns what.
        And Not A Bot is saying that he requires a bill of sale on guns he sells, for his own protection in case the gun is used in a crime.
        Question: How would anyone know that a gun you sold, that maybe was sold again, was used in a crime, ever belonged to you in the first place? Unless you bought it from a dealer who had a list of customers and serial numbers of the guns he'd sold to them and gave that list to BATF, there's no way to trace the provenance of guns.
        Without registration, there is no control.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 04:46:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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