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View Diary: Pres. Obama's Big Oil host has history of war profiteering, discrimination (Updated/Action) (284 comments)

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  •  I suspect the Gulf coast refineries will keep (0+ / 0-)

    operating with or without tarsands oil.

    Without the oil, they'll simply import a shitload of foreign crude, refine it, and re-export the amount that they can't sell domestically.  That is more or less what is happening right now - the US is exporting quite a bit (about a million barrels a day) of refined petroleum product.

    If tarsands crude makes it down there, they wouldn't have to import foreign crude.  But again, either way, those refineries are likely to keep operating because on a global scale, they are well run and efficient.

    •  That's the problem, the Koch brothers (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheMomCat, semiot, joanneleon

      do not want to get the crude from Venezuela.

      And I wanted to know why we’re taking oil from Canada across the entire United States to Texas. And, again, it’s because the Kochs want it. Now, why do they want it? The answer is, right now they’re getting their oil—the only place they can get lots of heavy crude oil—if you want heavy crude, you’ve got to get it from a heavy dude named Hugo Chávez, the president of Venezuela.
      Worse, the dilbit will be refined in Texas using petcoke a byproduct of tar sands mining that is dirtier than coal. So add the pollution to the deal for the Americans.

      To thine ownself be true

      by Agathena on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 07:29:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Only about 1/4 to 1/2 of (0+ / 0-)

        the tarsands oil will be refined in TX even if the Keystone pipeline is built.

        Right now, it's starting to be sent by rail to NY, DE, and LA.  Economically, the only thing holding this back is the fears of the railroads that pipelines will be built, thus rendering their investments superfluous.   If you think about it, killing keystone will put this fear to rest and they'll go whole hog into transporting crude oil (as they've shown they can do on a large scale wrt the Bakken oil - where a lack of pipeline capacity HAS NOT deterred development).  

        And, as the Alaskan crude dwindles, and convential oil from Alberta runs out, an increasing amount of tarsands oil will be sent via the existing Kinder Morgan Pipeline to Seattle area refineries.

        Finally, the Canadians are also interested in converting NG pipelines that go to their eastern regions (but are no longer needed because of massive fracking in PA, etc) to transport tarsands oil east.

        Having said all of that - should the Keystone pipeline be built - no, absolutely not, it's complete lunacy.

        However, we should stop deluding ourselves that that action will have any impact on global climate change - it won't.

        •  Blocking the Keystone pipeline, slows down (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Tar Sands extraction. The process is too expensive to continue on a massive scale without having a port for their landlocked dilbit.

          Do not take my word, look up oil as an investment and see where they list pipeline blockades and environmentalists as an investment risk.

          Slowing down the extraction of the worst industrial site in the world has an impact on climate change. Bill McKibben and Jim Hansen stand by this and I stand with them.

          END OF STORY

          To thine ownself be true

          by Agathena on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 11:22:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You need to read more broadly (0+ / 0-)

            I frankly don't know what to say other than that.

            I realize it's nice to have heroes that you wish to believe unconditionally, but when the evidence contradicts what they are telling you, maybe it's time to reconsider?

            •  I personally have no trust at all in Bill McKibben (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Roadbed Guy

              He is all part of a scheme to have cap and trade or some type of carbon tax, and those costs will be arranged so the 99% pay them, not those at the top.

              And people like him are paid to make the poorest of the poor feel they are saving the earth by turning off their lights an hour early each day. Meanwhile, the military is frittering away our resources, with its modernization, and its endless wars. Then there are those "non-existent" chem trailers up in our skies, 24/7, who are helping Monsanto see to it that the conventional crops are dying, while the Monsanto GM stuff will withstand (perhaps) the constant chemtrail mix of barium, strontium, and excess jet fuel dispersing down over the land. (Cost for each single county in the USA for the chemtrail planes that don't exist is ten billion per county per year!)

              Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

              by Truedelphi on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:40:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Reconsider and listen to you protecting BIG OIL? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              end of story

              •  I challenge you to find any post (0+ / 0-)

                where I have protected Big Oil.

                Because there are none.

                Quite the contary, I have a long and consistent record of being totally agains fossil fuels of all kind.  In fact, I have been a long time proponent of a stiff carbon tax to put them out of business (unlike all the pipeline fluff that is promoted here at DailyKos).

                My big issue is that if the Tarsands were COMPLETELY shut down - that's about 1% (or when fully developed maybe up to 2%) of global emissions.  IOW, basically nothing when there is enough slack in global supply to instanteously increase usage by 5 or 6% (like what happened in 2011 when Japan shut down their nukes (plus economic recovery in other parts of Asia kicked in)).

                OTOH, US emisions HAVE been dropping lately even in the face of global surplus supply - wouldn't it make sense to figure out how/why and build on what's working rather than chasing unicorns over the rainbow?

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