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View Diary: Glenn Greenwald Once Again Proves He is a Hate-Oozing Douche (332 comments)

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  •  Uprated your tip jar. I don 't read Greenwald much (13+ / 0-)

    Never really did.  He 's big on civil liberties, whi h is fine, but I 've not seen much else that is progressive.  Anti -torture is good.  He opposes the drone use,  etc.  Reasonable people can differ on that.  Bloggers who make a living on blogging need to drive traffic.  Like FDL,  his market seems go be an anti - Obama left, although I'm not sure how left he is.  His support for the invasion of Iraq does not impress me.  The quotes you offer seem to show much animus toward Obama and Dems.  Comparing msnbc,  which is moderate,  centrist outside of evenings, to FosNews is ridiculous.  I don 't think he is worth your scorn, but that 's your call.  For the modt part, he is a marginal figure speaking to other marginalized folks.

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    by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 04:55:30 AM PST

    •  His being on the margins is no accident (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan, psilocynic, MrAnon

      and no conspiracy.  There's no way he could work for any news organization that required him to justify the things he says - no doubt he would find such an environment "creatively stifling."  That's why I suggested he should apply for a job at Fox - I really think he would feel at home among people who share his single deepest conviction.

      A slaver says: "Work for me or I'll kill you." A corporate executive says "Work for me or I'll take away your means of survival." Is there a difference?

      by Troubadour on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 05:26:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And that's why (17+ / 0-)

      he angers people here, full stop.

      because he seems "to show much animus toward Obama and Dems."

      The only salient fact. Everything else is just noise.

      Funny, though, Tom, that in one breath you're both questioning GG's left bona fides and equivocating on the drone war.  

      •  No, I just don't see GG as all that left (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MrAnon, Troubadour, emelyn

        on any other issues.   I have not read him often, but I never have noticed any class basis to his work.  His critiques seem to be about GWOT, foreign policy, etc.    

        Yes, CG has animus to Obama and some folks here have animus toward GG.

        The drone war is not a litmus test on being "left," in my view.  I go back to economic classes issues on defining "left," but you may differ.  

        My only point on the "drone war" is that reasonable people can differ on it.  You may disagree and see it self-evidently evil.  

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        by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 08:13:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know why you'd bother trying to (12+ / 0-)

          characterize the philosophy of someone you don't read often.

          Yes, he focuses on foreign policy, war, imperialism, and the media, and so did Noam Chomsky, and in fact, his views are decidedly Chomskyesque, which is why GG and the old dog are collaborating on a project.

          And surely you're too smart to argue that war and imperialism are not "economic issues."

          •  I did not know that he worked with Chomsky. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            david mizner, RenMin

            Interesting.  Chomsky is to my left, but has done some good things.  

            Yes, imperialism has an economic aspect (see Hobson and Lenin, although I doubt either were truly right in their analysis at the time).  

            The times I have read GG, he has not written about class-based issues.  It's GWOT, torture, civil liberties, etc.    

            Is he a Marxist?   A supporter of trade unions?  A liberal?  

            His views may be "Comskeyesque" on imperialism.  Are they are overthowing capitalism?    

            Does he support raising the minimum wage?  

            Is msnbc the "enemy" because they hired Axelrod and Gibbs?  

            I'll check him out again.  I've read him in the past, and never had a big opinion about him, good or bad.  He seeemd to have gone down the Sirota road of alienation and anti-Obama, but that's more of an impression I have, perhaps from reading his critics.

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            by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 08:57:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  As far as I can tell, I think his views (11+ / 0-)

              on economic structure aren't well developed and surely don't animate him the way foreign policy does. But any definition of left certainly includes antiwar and anti-imperalism. (What is war but a war that capitalism sustains itself?)

              What's more, he's championed Occupy Wall Street and blasted Wall Street corruption and, perhaps more tellingly, opposed cuts to Social Security and Medicare. He's at heart an anti-authoritarian, deeply skeptical of concentrated power, which is why he's sometimes mistaken for an economic libertarian.

              On economic issues -- in fact, on all issues -- he's something of a work in progress (aren't we all), so rather than demonizing him (Tokyo Rose?) it'd be wise to urge him to become more engaged on classic class-war issues, because contrary to your claim -- he's hardly a marginal figure.

              He's become an important voice who will outlast all prObama pundits, who will whither away when the President leaves office.

              •  Fair enough. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Don midwest, RenMin, WB Reeves

                I left a series of comments reviewing recent articles he wrote.  Nothing he says upsets me, although I'm less critcial of Obama than he is.

                Whether he "outlasts" all pro-Obama pundits is unkown.  Just a year ago when I waspromoting a union-based movement, I was attacked by supporters of "Occupy (lefty trademark pending) who told me it was a world-historical movement" that unions were trying to coopt.  Yet, Occupy is a fading memory now, like the Seattle riots in the late 90s.    

                It's hard to know what will last.  

                I know we disagree on this, but I think Obama is the best hope for preventing a really dystopic United States.  Changing the narrative to even centirst polcies matters, and I think he is doing that.

                Nothing I read ffrom Greenwald bothers me much, but I truly believe in the long run,  Barack Obama will contribute to greater change for the good than his critics, even with Obama's imperfections.  

                It's certianly ok to criticize or question, and Greenwald does that.  

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                by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:26:26 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  I read the "offending" article. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour

            MSNBC boldly moves to plug its one remaining hole

            His overall point the US media is too deferential to power is true, but that derives from corporate control of media and for the most part, it would be hard to argue that media was too deferential to Obama overall.

            msnbc is a cable news/entertainment station.  I'm glad there is centrist alternative to right wing (cnn) and semi-fascist (FoxNews) cable tv/news entertainment.  In the evenings, msnbc is center-left with Shultz, Maddow and what's his name.  

            Adding Gibbs and Axelrod to their talking heads does not bother me.

            msnbc is not  nbc.  I fail to see the outrage driving his column (or really the outrage of the diary)

            I'll skim some other columns.  This one leaves me "meh."

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            by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:06:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  This one is ok, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour

            but I disagree with his support for West's calling Obama a war criminal.

            But, yes, all countries think they are exceptional.

            The premises and purposes of American exceptionalism

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            by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:09:40 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Nothing wrong with this one, (0+ / 0-)

            although I believe peopel can reasonably differ on whether the drone war is driving anti-American feeling in the muslim world or even copst/benefit rationales.  

            But it certainly a legitimate argument:

            Obama, the US and the Muslim world: the animosity deepens
             

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            by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:12:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Skimming the titles of his last (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour

            10 or so columns, it's similar to what I have read from him before.  

            I don't see why people get so upset about him, but I also do not think he is all that great either.  

            Nothing class-based, though.  

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            by TomP on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:14:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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