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View Diary: Chilling Discovery from Russian Caves: 1.5 °C Warming Will Melt Permafrost Unleashing Carbon Bomb (417 comments)

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  •  More science on this is good to see. (6+ / 0-)

    It's always a good thing for those of us who respect the method and its results.

    At the same time, it also gives the deniers just that much more to deny.

    Funny how that works, isn't it.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 09:43:59 AM PST

    •  It's another hoax I tell ya! (3+ / 0-)

      There is no permafrost!

      The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

      by Words In Action on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 10:38:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree (5+ / 0-)

      Alaskans might not care about hurricanes in the gulf or on the East Coast, or about drought in the midwest, but more of them are likely to understand what permafrost is, and see changes happening all around them.

      Likewise, those on the Jersey shore may not give a fig about permafrost, but they sure do see the effects of beach erosion, and see first hand the hazards of putting your life savings into a property that depends on development and year round habitation of barrier islands.

      Those who depend on fish and shellfish for their livelihood can already see local disturbances arising from ocean temperature and acidification.

      We will build a coalition to move forward only by reaching people through what they already understand, through direct contact with their local environment.

      •  Slightly confused, I am... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, Cliss

        I know you weren't disagreeing with my statement that more science is good to see,

        It must have been the part about deniers?

        And I understand what you are saying about reaching people through what they already understand. It does strike me that even people with a feel for permafrost would not inherently be aware of the scientific evidence put forth in this diary. The evidence does speak strongly to me, though.

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 12:04:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, and yes (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina, Cliss

          I agree that more science is a good thing.
          I disagree that it give deniers more to deny.

          It gives them less evidence that they can escape, when people have direct exposure to changes that are unprecedented for their area.

        •  Did you mean the deniers will have to spend (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          more and more time / energy combating evidence?

          I read your sentence about deniers as meaning the deniers will have more and more points on which they can plant doubt and falsely assert "controversy."

          •  That's what I meant. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            They will have more to doubt, not less. I meant it as a kind of joke, but with an underlying layer of truth. What they use as logic is entirely different from what we use. I will grant that there will be fewer deniers as time goes on, though. To me they're already irrelevant, but sadly I suppose that they still ensnare all too many people who would otherwise be about as convinced by the science as we are. I say that because I remember an earlier, happier time when science was seen by the masses as the bringer of wonderful things rather than a harbinger of horrors and a warning to change our ways.

            Unfortunately that latter function of science has a way of making people wish it away.

            Moderation in most things.

            by billmosby on Fri Feb 22, 2013 at 01:11:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Agree - and then there will always be some (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              billmosby, Cliss

              subset who seeks to profit off confusion and fear, and we are experiencing a level of confusion and fear among those who had previously felt life was predictable and some things were guaranteed.

              No more - we now live in an age where education won't guarantee employment, investing in a long term mortgage at the earliest possible time in your career no longer makes sense, and planning your summer vacation is much, much harder! (the last point, tongue in cheek).

      •  And there we go.... (0+ / 0-)

        Now there's a solution! =)

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