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View Diary: Immigration Reform: Abolish all employer sponsored visas (79 comments)

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  •  Amy Klobuchar is in bed with the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alain2112

    business community.

    She cares nothing about her constituents.  

    From your link:

    "Amy Klobuchar is set to unveil legislation that would give the business community something that's it has wanted for a long time: more visas to bring in highly-skilled foreign workers"

    At a time when we are graduating more U.S. high skilled workers than the job market can absorb, she wants to allow job outsourcers to bypass the U.S. workforce.

    Shame on her.

    •  Amy (1+ / 0-)
      She cares nothing about her constituents.
      If that were true, then she wouldn't introduce steps to make it easier for H1-Bs to move easily between jobs. That would actually harm the business community because they would no longer have a hold on the H1-B employee.
      •  It would harm her (0+ / 0-)

        constituent voters who now have even more competition for scarcer and scarcer jobs.

        Are you familiar with the supply and demand concept?

        •  I am (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Patrick Costighan

          I am just trying to figure out why the concept is different for Amnesty as compared to H1-Bs.

          One argument for Amnesty is that it will reduce abuse of illegal workers because once they are legal they will have better working conditions and better wages and hence Americans would be competing with them on a level playing field.

          Making it easier for H1-Bs to move jobs would essentially bring about the same improvement for Americans who are competing with H1-Bs for jobs.

          So either 1st argument is bogus or the 2nd argument is correct - I am trying to figure it out.

          •  The first argument is the bogus one. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            codairem

            The 1986 immigration act legalized the 3 million illegal workers at that time.  

            Those workers were fired or left low paying under the table jobs to make room for the current 11 million illegal workers in those jobs waiting for the next go.

            We know what happened before.  Why is it a mystery what will happen again?

            •  Why (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Patrick Costighan

              Why is there widespread support for Amnesty on this site then? Why is there widespread opposition for securing borders on this site then?

              •  It is not as widespread as you think (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                billmosby, Whatithink
              •  Several reasons. (4+ / 0-)

                First, it's very easy to throw conversation-ending charges of racism in this context, when very few of the immigrants are white. And given that we're a bunch of educated liberals, we've been conditoned to think in terms of group identity and group advantage. Which isn't always a bad thing, unless it becomes the lens through which you veiw everything, and thus a substitute for thinking. But not everything fits in that box, and that can be a unpopular thing to sy around here.

                Second, there is a strong bias against anything that has any flavor of nationalism, even of the benign "I want my government to work for the interest of this country" sort. When you want nation-states to go away, it's kind of hard to draw lines between them.

                Third, and probably most important, is the fact that most of the strong advocates for the other side are people we don't like. People in general have a hard time separating the argument from the arguer. LIberals should be, on average, less vulnerable to this flaw... we aren't.

                It's oen of the subjects where clarit is hardest to acheive, because we've thrown so many other issues into the mix that the baseline economic arguments become almost impossible to see through the fog of bullshit.

                Ironically, the clearest description of the unsolvability of the problem I've ever read came from a Republican junior Congressman from Arizona...

                "For the Right, it's cheap labor. For the Left, it's cheap votes."

                --Shannon

                "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
                "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

                by Leftie Gunner on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 02:27:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Why (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                IT Professional

                are you making the assumption that the people supporting amnesty and the people opposing more H1Bs are the same people? I wonder why you seem hell-bent to expose some hypocrisy without knowing exactly whom you're accusing.

                We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

                by denise b on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 05:29:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Also, what wording has (0+ / 0-)

        she incorporated to help any of her highly already educated and trained voters to get the jobs for which they were bypassed.

        Not one word.

        Does she put anything in there that when a trained U.S. worker presents him/herself at any place where a visa worker is, that they have to also be hired?

        What is a voucher for a course going to do if you will never have to be chosen?

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