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View Diary: Tito 2018 Mars Mission Update: Good News & Bad News (116 comments)

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  •  The key question to me has to do with this: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Troubadour
    However, will seek revenue streams to defray costs - e.g., selling data, media rights, and so on.
    Will the intellectual property, patents, etc. from any new technologies or best practices they develop for this mission be one of the things they're selling as a revenue stream, or will those be released freely?

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 01:17:46 PM PST

    •  I would assume that would be decided (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FarWestGirl

      on a case-by-case basis, and also depend on the disposition of who is involved in a given development.  Paragon is a commercial contractor, so they probably want to accumulate some level of IP from their work, whereas obviously NASA Ames would not.  

      How can it be a "free" market if you're forced to work for it?

      by Troubadour on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 01:41:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They basically say they are trying NOT to develop (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mythatsme

      new technology, because they believe that will slow them down. They think they can do this with conventional technology. I am not so sure about that. I would actually feel better about the mission if the idea was to develop and test new technology. But, given an artificially rushed timeline, that is not possible. That's why I would categorize this more as a stunt, and an unlikely one at that, than a serious proposal.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 01:55:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  If nothing else, they'd have new best practices... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Troubadour

        ...for various spaceflight operations, and whether they treat those practices as trade secrets or as knowledge to be shared freely could make a huge difference in the repeatability of the flyby.

        It's also safe to say that because this is unlike any other manned mission in spaceflight history, while they wouldn't develop entirely new kinds of technologies, they'd be making an awful lot of tweaks, changes, and improvements to existing technological platforms—changes that could be essential for a return trip by anyone else.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 02:22:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps some things will be learned. It's not (0+ / 0-)

          clear to me how many of these things could only be learned by doing this mission in this way, at the cost of around $1 billion. I doubt they will share all the data freely, but I also doubt that they would be able to sell the information they obtain for anything near the cost of the mission. I think when that much money is on the line, a little more clarity is usually a very good idea. It's fine if some richey rich guy wants to spend his money without thinking everything through. But, I'm not sure he should be praised for doing it.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 02:42:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  In the near-term, that's probably right. (0+ / 0-)
            I doubt they will share all the data freely, but I also doubt that they would be able to sell the information they obtain for anything near the cost of the mission.
            In the longer term, this may be a signal that they're betting on the future of commercial spaceflight—not only for pleasure cruises, but also for the kinds of missions that could really use the technological tweaks and best practices that could be developed for a Mars flyby, like asteroid mining.

            If the company that owns these secrets patents and licenses them, or becomes the exclusive providers of whatever technological changes they develop, getting either a cut of the profits of any future spaceflight or being the only company that can provide a certain technology could pay off well in the medium- to long-term.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 05:31:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  How many will watch on TV? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Troubadour

          How many 5 year old kids will go

          Whooooa ! ! ! thats us up there.....

          ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 06:01:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  How is "stunt" mutually exclusive to (3+ / 0-)

        "serious proposal"?  Furthermore, it's not an "artificially" rushed timeline - it's a consequence of orbital alignment, not something someone just made up.  

        How can it be a "free" market if you're forced to work for it?

        by Troubadour on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 02:23:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The orbital alignment is only necessary if you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mythatsme

          assume the 100,000 km high-speed fly-by truly has a purpose. It is unclear that that part of the mission is even necessary, if the idea is studying radiation exposure and crew conditions. They seem to be rushing so that can say they did something Mars-related. The stunt aspect of this seems so important to them they they can't be bothered to develop new technology, or even to talk about the so-called "research" they would perform or "data" that would be gathered. The focus seems to be on performing a stunt. Not all stunts have to be mutually exclusive with serious projects. But, this one seems to emphasize the former more than the later.

          Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

          by tekno2600 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 02:34:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You seem to be attributing motives (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pistolSO, groversald

            to a private group that has no incentive to "rush" anything.  It's not NASA, and it's not a business.  It's an organization established for the specific purpose of this mission and what it may yield both technically and culturally.  They're pursuing the 2018 date because that's the deadline imposed by nature for the most achievable possible mission scenario.  

            I don't know where you're getting the idea that they "can't be bothered" to develop new technology - they're deliberately limiting their pursuit of completely new systems to avoid delays, which is once again because of the deadline imposed by orbital mechanics.  And if they prove that this can be done, at the extremely low relative costs that this group would be able to raise, how exactly do you imagine that would be bad for technology?  Why would you develop a new system and accept all the delays and added expenses involved if you can achieve your time-limited objective without it?  Charles Lindbergh doesn't wait around to catch a 747 - he flies what he's got and then he and the other efforts he inspires work toward something better.

            How can it be a "free" market if you're forced to work for it?

            by Troubadour on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 02:58:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's good to question the underlying rationale (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neuroptimalian

              for a fly-by, especially if it appears that the things the group is proposing may not be necessary to achieve the goals they describe. If they don't have people on their staff asking devil's advocate questions like this right now, then the project will fail. End of story.

              The reason I say seem so rushed by the orbital mechanics deadline that they aren't concerned with developing new technology is because of point 9:

              "Will seek to minimize use of technologies requiring additional development in order to head off delays."
              There they go again about delays. But, first show it is even necessary to do such a fly-by mission in order to learn about the type of information that is the ostensible goal of the project (i.e. radiation exposure effects).

              Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

              by tekno2600 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 03:24:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You keep harping on "necessity." (0+ / 0-)

                Its biggest contribution is psychological - to get people out of the risk-averse "can't do" mentality, and inspire a new generation of people to be involved in this.  There is a whole world of difference between unmanned technical demonstrations and actual people actually doing something.  

                How can it be a "free" market if you're forced to work for it?

                by Troubadour on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 11:14:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  How old are these people? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Troubadour

              that are questioning this fly by?

              I dont get them, was Apollo 8 a "stunt", conceived in a short time frame, no real purpose...... except to fly by?

              ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 05:59:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Age isn't the issue. I'm old enough and educated (0+ / 0-)

                enough to know what I'm talking about and then some, if that's the question. But, this mission seems very different than Moon fly-bys. It was clear that the moon fly-by were dressed rehersals that sent crews out on relatively short missions to test technologies which were soon going to be ready to make a landing. This is a year and half long mission that does not sound well thought out and is very unlikely to make us any readier to land on Mars. It sounds questionably planned and questionably funded. It strikes me as more of a publicity stunt than anything else.

                Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                by tekno2600 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 09:43:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'll take ELon Musks word over yours, sorry (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Troubadour

                  And Apollo 8 was nearly a spur of the moment mission.

                  ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

                  by Roger Fox on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 04:36:37 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Elon Musk has a bit of a mixed record...and I'm (0+ / 0-)

                    even less impressed with Dennis Tito, either from a scientific or business perspective.  But, they will accomplish one thing for sure: Setting the record for the longest, most expensive dressed rehearsal of something that could probably be done with a much less elaborate proof of concept.

                    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                    by tekno2600 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 08:32:42 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Thats wrong? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour

            Why do I think you didnt grow up with Mercury, Gemini, Pioneer, Ranger and Apollo...............

            ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 05:56:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  They said that about Apollo8 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Troubadour

        But the broadcast from Lunar orbit captivated the Nation.

        People stood out in the cold Christmas eve night air with binocs waiting for Apollo 8 to clear the edge of the moon.

        I did, I saw Apollo 8 during 2 orbits, I still remember thinking thats us up there.

        Thats all this Mars mission is, a PR stunt. that could captivate the entire Planet.

        Why you dont demonstrate that understanding in numerous comments, well gosh darn it, WTH is wrong with you for Armstrong's sake?

        ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Wed Feb 27, 2013 at 06:07:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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