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View Diary: Some Truth About Switzerland and Guns (121 comments)

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  •  If you look carefully, you'll see (1+ / 0-)
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    Texas Lefty

    that I recognized that a gun is more likely to succeed, whereas other means are less likely to succeed. I admit that, of suicide means, firearms are pretty certain ways to end oneself.

    But I'm also saying that a suicide intervention can be meaningless if the person goes on to try it again... and again...

    In any case, the fact that a person is contemplating, and trying to carry out, suicide is the problem we should be rooting out. Because I know that no one here is trying to argue that only suicide with guns is "bad", but suicide by rope, car exhaust, pills, etc are "okay" and tolerable by society. 'Cause that would be crazy talk.

    •  The point is (0+ / 0-)

      Most people do not "go on to try it again... and again". Most people who make a suicide attempt try once. If that once is with a gun, there is much less chance to intervene.

      The way we "root out" the problem that a person is contemplating suicide is by identifying and intervening with the person at risk. Most often the identification only comes with a suicidal gesture. There is no denying the fact that if that gesture is made with a gun, intervention is vastly less likely to be possible than if that initial gesture is made with a toxin, cutting, car exhauset, etc.

      (As a physician I know I'd rather treat an overdose than a GSW.)

      Your argument is fine as far as it goes but it posits some kind of omniscience on the part of family, friends, and mental health professionals that simply doesn't exist.

      •  Suicide is a problem we have kept (0+ / 0-)

        hidden, or just beneath the surface, for some time. Only recently, with the rash of veteran's suicides, has it (finally) been getting any traction. My Army Reserve group is constantly saying the same things you are pointing out: ask, monitor, ask again... intervene when necessary. But even now we're just learning how to do these things, and only recently has it become sorta-kinda-partially OK to talk about all this out loud.

        Which is another reason why I'm not afraid of, and quietly looking forward to the results of, Obama's lifting of the stoppage on federal research at CDC into firearm deaths as a health issue-- because the stats are something like 2/3's or so of gun deaths are suicides. If the CDC investigates gun deaths, then they will de facto be investigating suicide, and it's about damn time.

        I'm not against gun control as long as it is smart, rational, respectfully implemented and relevant. But I also say that logic has to take into account millions of safe, law-abiding, non-criminal firearms owners, and logic also means that we have to look at gun deaths not in a bubble of ideology based on liking guns or not liking them, but we also need to look at root causes like gun deaths as a result of crime, and what is causing the crime? Gun deaths as a result of suicide, and what is causing the suicide?

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