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View Diary: Some Truth About Switzerland and Guns (121 comments)

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  •  Again. Most "failed" jumping and hanging (0+ / 0-)

    attempts weren't attempts.  They were parasuicide.  

    You're simply pretending that this does not exist.  You're dedicated to the proposition that the person who leaps from a second floor window is just as intent on comitting suicide as the person who leaps from a 200 foot office tower.

    The overwhelming majority of suicide "attempts" are parasuicide.  They are not suicide attempts.

    Australian suicides by year -

    2010: 2,359
    2009: 2,284
    2008: 2,340
    2007: 2,227
    2006: 2,118
    2005: 2,101
    2004: 2,098
    2003: 2,213
    2002: 2,320
    2001: 2,454
    2000: 2,363
    1999: 2,492
    1998: 2,683
    1997: 2,720
    1996: 2,393
    1995: 2,368
    1994: 2,258
    1993: 2,081
    1992: 2,294
    1991: 2,360
    1990: 2,161
    1989: 2,096
    1988: 2,197

    http://www.gunpolicy.org/...

    It took 5 years for them to get back to normal after the severe firearm restriction laws went into effect.  Now, you might argue that's got to do with compliance, or that guns were still out there, or....

    but here are gun suicides.  They went down, while suicides went up.

    2010: 162
    2009: 169
    2008: 183
    2007: 190
    2006: 181
    2005: 147
    2004: 167
    2003: 193
    2002: 217
    2001: 261
    2000: 222
    1999: 269
    1998: 235
    1997: 329
    1996: 382
    1995: 388
    1994: 420
    1993: 431
    1992: 488
    1991: 505
    1990: 486
    1989: 450
    1988: 521

    That's the gun suicide rate.  You can see that it was already tanking drastically, and kept right on tanking.

    80% of all firearm suicide deaths in the US are white males.  White women have an almost identical degree of access to firearms.  They rarely use them.

    If access to firearms changes parasuicide into suicide, why does this only apply to one gender?

    Why are white males 12 times more likely to kill themselves when they "attempt" suicide than white women?  They live in the same homes, the same distance from the gun cabinet.

    income gains to the top 1% from 2009 to 2011 were 121% of all income increases. How did that happen? Incomes to the bottom 99% fell by 0.4%

    by JesseCW on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 09:37:30 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You have no idea (0+ / 0-)

      what you're talking about.

      How are you able to conclude that "failed hangings and jumps were "parasuicide""? Did you examine the patients afterwards? Did you read a study in which this was done? Are you even board certified in psychiatry (like I am?)

      Your easy dismissal of suicide attempts that are unsuccessful as "must be parasuicide" ignores what actual data and mental health professionals have shown over decades of actual research: suicide is most often an impulsive act. When a gun is around, many (mostly men, as they're more prone to the violent methods) use them. When they're not, they may try less lethal methods.

      I am enjoying the hubris that has you pretending to know better than the editors at NEJM and so on, though.

      I will also point out that you posted numbers, not rates. The suicide rate in Australia has decreased with strict gun control. As one would fully expect with substitution of less lethal methods, some but not all suicide attempts were converted into failed suicides. This is consistent with what I have been explaining to you, and the opposite of what you proposed.

      If what you claim were true, you would expect no change in the overall suicide rate with fewer guns because anyone who is "really serious" will always manage to kill themselves. And yet, the overall (non-firearm) suicide RATE in Australia fell by 27% by 2006!

      It is true that men are more prone to violence (including self-violence) than women. You're hardly breaking new ground there.

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