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View Diary: If you think sequester will be bad, wait until they gut Social Security (195 comments)

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  •  If you don't think president supports SS CPI chain (24+ / 0-)

    then you haven't been paying attention.  Why else did he appoint an aging GOP crank who depises SS and a DINO who wants to cut SS to co-chair the Catfood Commission?  Why did both of the last 2 Dem presidents hail the CFC in their DNC speeches?

    Do you think that this is all an accident?

    Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

    by RFK Lives on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 09:03:30 AM PST

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    •  if he wanted to do it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheLawnRanger

      he would have done it.  right?  he could just say, "John Boehner, Harry Reid, the federal gov't needs more money.  So let's just do this Chained CPI thing."  No negotiations.  The bill would be on his desk and signed in a day.  Done.

      Obama doesn't want chained CPI.  He's offering chained CPI to the Republicans because it's something they want.  

      In return he gets, well, what?  That is the question.

      If all he gets is a debt ceiling raise or a short-term extension of UE benefits or something like that, then it's a terrible terrible deal.  But if the deal gets rid of the debt ceiling and generates significant new revenues, then that's probably an OK deal.  If those additional revenues go towards real stimulus, then that's a great deal.

      •  The chained CPI isn't (14+ / 0-)

        a great deal no matter what he get in return for it.

        "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

        by zaka1 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 09:33:45 AM PST

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        •  Four years from now (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mollyd

          if the economy is healthy and the deficit projections are normalized, Congress will "fix" chained CPI.  that's why it's a good deal (and why Republicans wont take it).

          if the economy is still stagnant and revenues are still down, the required cuts to entitlements will dwarf chained CPI.

          •  The Republican Congress won't repeal it (5+ / 0-)

            and there will be a Republican Congress and President once Americans figure out how Democrats have screwed them on Social Security.  

            As I keep saying, I will vote on this alone.

          •  Four years (4+ / 0-)

            from now, you think the disabled and elderly can wait that long.  With the history of our government especially the way it works now and for last fifteen years, nothing will be fixed, but more will be taken away.  

            "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

            by zaka1 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 11:32:54 AM PST

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            •  this is about inflation adjustment (0+ / 0-)

              the effects of the switching to chained CPI wont really start to hit until the 5-10 year range.  

              I know every dollar counts.  I understand that.  I respect that.

              My point isn't that chained CPI is a great idea or even a good idea.  I recognize that it's a lousy option.  But I also believe that until and unless we get real economic growth, the options are ALL lousy.

              •  another point along these lines (0+ / 0-)

                if chained CPI comes along with a bump in payments to SS people that starts today, if it comes along with other adjustments that ensure that poorer recipients get more, is it really the Armageddon event you all are making it out to be?

                until we have a deal, until we have the outlines of a deal, there's no way to evaluate it.

                •  What other adjustments did you have in mind? (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PhilJD, RFK Lives, Panama Pete, zaka1

                  I hope not the laughable "Special Minimum Benefit," that Bowles-Simpson include in their proposal, The Moment Of Truth.

                  Please folks, take a hour or so, and read this proposal.  It is the "framework" for all that is happening, right now.

                  You know, the special benefit that CBO itself admits will only apply to a small percentage of low income folks, because of the LONG WORK HISTORY REQUIREMENT, which the poorest among us, rarely have.

                  'Nice try, but no cigar.' :-)

                  Mollie

                  "If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

                  hiddennplainsight

                  by musiccitymollie on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 12:21:07 PM PST

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                  •  Oh, and let me add--low income meaning "SSI" level (3+ / 0-)

                    of poverty.  REAL low income.

                    And the 'Special Minimum Benefit' is clearly written so that most of these folks won't qualify due to the required years of work (or vesting period).

                    It was clearly written in as a "talking point," so that Bowles-Simpson could better "peddle" their very draconian cuts.

                    See Rep (IL) Jan Schakowsky's Reuters Op-Ed.  Here's an excerpt below, and a link to piece entitled "The Sham Of Simpson-Bowles."

                    [snip]

                    Have Simpson-Bowles’ champions read it?

                    Given any real scrutiny, this plan falls far short of being a serious, workable or reasonable proposal – from either an economic or political analysis. . . .

                    Somehow, being willing to cut “entitlement” benefits has been called a “badge of courage” for those who purport to be serious about deficit reduction– despite the fact that Social Security has not contributed one thin dime to the deficit.

                    Under Simpson-Bowles, long-term solvency for Social Security is achieved mostly by cutting benefits.

                    Seventy-five years out, the ratio of spending cuts to revenue increases is 4 to 1.
                    They propose raising the age of full Social Security benefits to 69 – claiming that everyone is living longer.

                    But a sizable percentage of Americans, mostly lower-income workers, especially women, are actually living shorter lives, and a large chunk of other Americans just can’t work that long – even if they can find a job.

                    Their plan cuts benefits for current and future retirees by reducing the cost-of-living adjustment.
                    For future retirees, all these changes taken together would reduce the average annual benefit for middle-income workers – those with annual earnings of $43,000 to $69,000 – by up to 35 percent. . . .
                    [snip]

                    If this isn't worth fighting for, I don't know what is. ;-)

                    Mollie

                    "If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

                    hiddennplainsight

                    by musiccitymollie on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 01:23:07 PM PST

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              •  What your not realizing (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                musiccitymollie, Panama Pete

                is that those of us who are disabled will feel the CPI sooner than most because we will have been on Social Security and Medicare for an extended period than most people.  

                And most of us are already compensating because Social Security is not like working, in my case it less than half of what I was earning while working, so I've already cut to the bone.  As of now, I'm turning off my heat (it is 20 degrees outside) and living indoors with temps between 60 and 63 degrees.  I am the living dead, just waiting to die, but struggling every day until I do.

                "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

                by zaka1 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 01:28:35 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  And if we keep interest rates (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Panama Pete

                at zero then inflation doesn't happen with the way things are calculated now.  However all the other things not included in the calculation of inflation such as food, gas, ulitilies, healthcare costs, etc., etc., are rising faster than a speeding train.  The chained CPI will hurt even more because the CPI as it is now does not reflect the true cost of living.  The chained CPI will actually be more of a reduction because it will be based on replacements for actual goods and the truth is everyone I know is already using cheaper goods as replacements now.  There is no replacing room, just doing without is the next step.  

                We are already falling behind on the rising costs that are not considered as part of the true measurement of inflation.  

                "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

                by zaka1 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 01:40:52 PM PST

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      •  Your power of the president is a little warped. (0+ / 0-)

        He isn't a king. While he DOES have requests (health care reform) and can lay out a vision (we need cuts!) he can have Congress try to fulfill his agenda. But to think he can wave a magic wand and install policy is a fantasy. And I don't want him to...because you never give your guy the power you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have.

      •  yeah, but . . . (0+ / 0-)

        If is a really BIG word.

      •  No matter what Obama gets in return.... (0+ / 0-)

        ....chained CPI is utterly, totally and irredeemably FUCKED. Try living on SS for awhile before saying such stupid garbage.

        If Obama and the Dems acquiese in slashing my SSDI, I will never cast another vote for any Democrat.

        See the children of the earth who wake to find the table bare, See the gentry in the country riding out to take the air. ~~Gordon Lightfoot, "Don Quixote"

        by Panama Pete on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 12:57:28 AM PST

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    •  Hear, hear RFK Lives! And thanks. N/T (0+ / 0-)

      Mollie

      "If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.” -- Woodrow Wilson

      hiddennplainsight

      by musiccitymollie on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 11:05:34 AM PST

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