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View Diary: Abortion is just like the Holocaust, says death penalty lover, because he's a schmuck (150 comments)

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  •  Please see (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly, irishwitch

    quickening, which explains how women used to be able to make their own decisions because their bodies would tell them.

    It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

    by sboucher on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 02:26:17 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm a mother so there is no need to tell (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Munchkn

      me about pregnancy.  That was kind of condescending.

      Do you think a majority of this country supports the completely unfettered right of a woman to choose, for any reason whatsoever, to abort a completely healthy fetus one day before birth?  I do not.  

      I also do not think a majority of this country supports making abortion illegal at ANY stage of the pregnancy, or making abortion for medical reasons illegal.  

      If you want to point to "quickening," or first fetal movement, as the basis for determining when there is a separate human life to consider, that would be even earlier than Roe v. Wade puts it.  

      I would agree that the vast majority of women make rational and moral decisions, based on society's accepted view of morality, when it comes to pregnancy.  But the vast majority of people also make rational and moral decisions not to attack other people, and that does not stop us from considering the rights of other human lives in restricting what I can do.  The tricky question is, when is there another human life, and when do the interests of that separate human life allow society to put some restrictions on the voluntary choices of the mother.  Roe v. Wade  put that point at viability.  I think most people accept that point, but it's not an easy moral issue.  

      •  No intention to be condescending. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        irishwitch

        I'm a mother too, and I remember when my quickenings happened.

        No one is saying anything about aborting a day before birth for any reason. Or even past the first trimester.

        It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

        by sboucher on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:00:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, that's the point. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sboucher

          Why no abortion beyond the first trimester?  Why is that where the line is drawn?  That's the point I'm trying to make.  What is the moral, philosophical, or even religious reason for setting the dividing line there? Roe v. Wade's dividing line -- viability -- was kind of arbitrary.  Is it irrational to think that the presence of separate brain waves is indicative of a separate human life?  A separate heartbeat?  

          That's why I said it was a difficult issue.  For most people, there is a separate human life to consider at some point.  And I can understand how people might differ as to where that point is.  

          •  To Me, Fetal Development is Irrelvant; (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Alfuso, sboucher

            The question is not whether abortion can be justified. The real issue is how can state forced compulsory childbirth be justified against women who do not wish to be pregnant (who became pregnant by accident)?

            Just like we cannot force someone to give blood or donate bone marrow tissue against their will to save another life; we cannot force women to donate our uteruses to serve as incubators to sustain a parasitic relationship. No woman should be forced to donate her uterus to sustain another life; even if that life will no longer retain viability apart from the woman's own body.

            There are other things to consider besides the fetus such as what is best for the woman's life, her health and her overall quality of life as well as her family and what's best for society. It really goes without saying that forcing women to give birth against our will will result in lots more unwanted and abused children who will then  likely grow up to be criminals, creating many more burdens and costs to society.

            I am so sick of the Forced-Birth movement (aka "Pro-Life") trying to force their opinions of women as incubators, on the rest of us.  Our bodies are our own and we will decide what happens to them and whether we will use them to sustain and bring forth life into this world. Reproductive Choice is a CONSTITUTIONALLY RIGHT and the Forced Birth Movement will just have to "get over it."  

            If Not Us, Who,..... If Not Now, When?

            by VirginiaBlue on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:47:33 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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