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View Diary: Abortion is just like the Holocaust, says death penalty lover, because he's a schmuck (150 comments)

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  •  Roe elevated the issue. (2+ / 0-)
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    Munchkn, irishwitch

    It gave privacy a Constitutional level which they could not accept.  The growing popularity of tv preachers and, then, Ronald Reagan turned the issue into a mania.

    "When you think about the money spent/on defense by the government/& the weapons of destruction we've built/we're so sure that we need/then you think of the millions that money could feed/How long?" J Browne

    by rainmanjr on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 02:54:23 PM PST

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    •  Evangelicals initially applauded Roe n/t (0+ / 0-)

      American exceptionalism is America's road to perdition.

      by Alexandre on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:01:36 PM PST

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      •  Get a grip. (0+ / 0-)

        They jopined in agaisnt it pretty shorlty after that. And the current SBC is notonly anti-Roe and anti-abortion, they're anti-birth ocntrol.  It ain't just Catholics on that bandwagon--the SBC just let the Catholic bishops do the original heavy lifting before getting in on the action. Huckabee is SBC and an ordained minsiter.

        And I susep[ct you don'
        t have much knowledge of the Bible Belt. I DO I've leved here a total of 16 yeras--and the fundies (AKA evangelicals) are very anti-=abortion and anti-woman, whatever they said in 73--they got steeplejacked and tkaen over by their loony wing, whiuch is noe the mainstream SBC<

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:31:16 PM PST

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        •  I realize that evangelicals are now very anti- (1+ / 0-)
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          Sue B

          abortion. My point is that they had no problems with Roe when it first came out. Only the Catholic hierarchy did. This is a matter of having a correct knowledge of history.

          There has been a diary about this:

          Abortion: The Mutable "Theology" of Christianism

          That's based on a blog post that is based on this book, which I've quoted a couple of times in this diary.

          The thing to understand is that no matter how vehemently evangelicals hate abortion now, they had no problems with it when Roe came out. This is because evangelicals think that Christian belief depends only on the Bible, and the Bible says absolutely nothing against abortion, despite what evangelicals now claim.

          Some right-wing Protestant Christians, members of the New Apostolic Reformation, realize this. That is why they claim that it has been revealed to them that abortion is murder.

          there's a lot of truth that the Holy Spirit gives us that the Bible doesn't even touch, doesn't even bring up, see? And so, I mean, like I say... You know, a big one that the Bible doesn't even touch is abortion. Nothing in the Bible that condemns abortion. But the Holy Spirit has revealed to us that abortion is murder.
          Unless a Protestant claims that God has revealed to them that abortion is murder, any Protestant that claims that abortion is murder is engaged in pure intellectual dishonesty, since there is no Biblical basis for finding that there's anything wrong with abortion.

          Thus, liberals should treat evangelicals' anti-abortion position as based on nothing more than a hoax.

          American exceptionalism is America's road to perdition.

          by Alexandre on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:54:23 PM PST

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          •  I was there fighting that fight, doing escort (2+ / 0-)
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            Alexandre, FogCityJohn

            duty in 78.  And gathering position papers as aprt of myu job in 74. Yes, they were slower on the uptake than the Catholic Church--because the fundies didn't have an organization to get boots on the ground.  The historians of their movement admit that. Once they got their act together and got over their utter loathing of Catholics (they considered them idol worshipers for having statues int he church--none too thrilled with Episcopalians either because they're too much like Catholics and give them the icks), they jumped in with both feet.

            Their leaders at various time have admitted they were slow to get organized and kinds chagrined that the Catholics got there first.  They responded with Jimmy Carter, but he wasn't mean enough for them so they pushed Reagan.  Carter made it okay to wear your religion on your sleeve. but Reagan was far more right-wing,. They created the Moral Majority, which was neither, to get their candidates elected--and banning abortion was a HUGE issue for them.

            It took 'em a while to get going but once they got there.

            And the protesters at the PP clinic I used, and where later I took rape victims, were not msotly Catholic, even in Baltimore which is very Catholic. The humns they sang when they weren't yelling at us, were decidedly Protestant humns--Catholics don;'t favor "We SHall Gather Bu the RIver" which ws one of their faves.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:06:08 PM PST

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            •  Good, so I don't think we have a disagreement (0+ / 0-)

              Evangelicals picked up their anti-abortion position from Catholics, not from the Bible, because the Bible doesn't say anything against abortion, as right-wing Protestants who believe in present-day revelation admit.

              I agree that a big part of the Christian Right coming together was evangelicals getting over their loathing of Catholics. (Both evangelicalism and Roman Catholicism are totally alien to me, by the way: I was raised Russian Orthodox and am now a nonbeliever who thinks of Lutheranism when he wants to see Christianity in a positive light.)

              American exceptionalism is America's road to perdition.

              by Alexandre on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:26:30 PM PST

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              •  Um, 98% of Catholic women USE birth control. (0+ / 0-)

                And they have abortions in the sme proportion as their numbers in the nation.  WHen you say "Catholics" I hope you're referring to the hierarchy rather than the Caytholics in the pews--because at least half the American Catholics (the female half) disagree violently iwth the bishops and the Pope. ANd Bill DOnahoe of the Catholic League is looking old and fragile and I think most of his followers are about his age.   I am 63, and msoyt women myu age don't buy into the bishops--nor do younger women. I think Bill D. speaks for the bishops and old white men, not for MPST Catholics.

                I also have the joy (!) of living in the Outh surrounded by fundies--and they still hate Catholics.  They let the bishops runt he lawsuit because the SBC, largest denom here, isn't like the RC Church.  Each church is an independent organization within the convention.  Pretty expensive for a church that has 200members to try to sue the government. There were a lot of pedohilia cases down her in the 70s--but you could only sue the particualt church, which means no huge sums--got virtually no publicity but local TV.

                Depends ont he Lutheranism.  Yhe Missouri Synod is as bad as the SBC--just as anti-woman, just as right-wing. Maybe you need to learn mroe about the churches before you leap into discussions when you don't know much.   And also, remeber the AMerican RC church bishops reflect the Vatican--but msot Catholics bloody well ignroe them on lots of shit, and most support gay marriage, , birth control, abortion, and a lot of things the Vatican rails against.

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 09:43:30 PM PST

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                •  Sorry for my imprecise language (1+ / 0-)
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                  Yes, I meant the RCC hierarchy. I usually say "hierarchy" in such discussions, but regrettably slipped on this occasion.

                  I am not surprised to hear that fundies still hate Catholics. I have seen many times evangelicals write on the Internet about Catholics distinguishing them from "Christians". To someone raised Eastern Orthodox, that is totally bizarre.

                  I was horrified to learn of the Missouri Synod. It is utterly un-Lutheran and un-German in my view, and I agree that it is just as bad as the SBC. I went to a Missouri Synod service once out of curiosity: I could not detect any joyfulness or Christian spirit there at all: and I could find those in a local evangelical/nondenominational church in the area whose worship I attended a couple of times, also out of curiosity.

                  So when I say Lutheranism, I mean ELCA, which is about as liberal as the American Episcopal church, with which it is in communion. :-) Needless to say, the Lutheran and the Anglican churches are the branches of Protestantism closest to Catholicism. :-)

                  Christian fundamentalism is a very weird, home-grown American invention, like Mormonism and Scientology.

                  American exceptionalism is America's road to perdition.

                  by Alexandre on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 10:10:06 PM PST

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