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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 3/6 (292 comments)

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  •  I'm not sure why Jim Matheson is on Frontline (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades

    Since he's basically invincible unless Mia Love gives it another try, and even then, she won't be given millions of dollars to throw at Matheson. She's the only one who could give a credible challenge to him, since he's really good at surviving.

    Then again, I dislike him and don't think that he deserves the support of Democratic money or voters (seriously, I've checked, and the only progressive or moderate thing he's done is vote for the Senate version of VAWA).

    I just wish the Democratic party could be built up in this district enough that we didn't have to have Matheson. I'm all for moderates in red districts, but Matheson barely even counts as a Democrat.

    Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

    by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:27:56 AM PST

    •  obvious (14+ / 0-)

      because he's in the reddest district that any Democrat holds without a significant ancestral Democratic presence.

      ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

      by James Allen on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:41:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Then why don't they spend that money (0+ / 0-)

        To empower the Democratic Party in Utah's 4th, instead of propping up an incumbent that doesn't really need it as much? Or even using the money for a more reliably Democratic incumbent in trouble?

        Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

        by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:44:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because its not a safe district, (15+ / 0-)

          no matter how safe you say he is, and because the DCCC is like a union for incumbents.  They protect their members.  

          ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

          by James Allen on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:49:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah (6+ / 0-)

            Sure he's survived steep odds multiple times, but vigilance must be maintained.

            "...and as I learned higher joys, so I learned neither to harm, nor to wish harm upon others." -Nietzche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

            by KingofSpades on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:51:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Even useless members? (0+ / 0-)

            Because Matheson votes in favor of the Republican side on almost everything. I mean seriously, going through his VoteSmart profile reads exactly like a Republican: http://votesmart.org/...

            I just don't understand why they spend so much money on this particular incumbent when there's much more deserving incumbents in need of the money and support they give.

            And sure, I understand that DCCC protects their own, but would it kill them to at least try to build up the Utah Democratic Party? As it is, they seem to be protecting Matheson at the expense of Utah Dem expansion, as little as that might be.

            Heck, from what I understand, Matheson isn't even a good fundraiser, so he's a money sink. Not that the Utah Dems also wouldn't be, but at least they want to be Democrats.

            Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

            by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:59:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  He's pretty good at fundraising. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bumiputera, lordpet8, ArkDem14, MichaelNY

              Every election he's been in he's raised and spent 7-figure amounts: http://www.opensecrets.org/...

              "...and as I learned higher joys, so I learned neither to harm, nor to wish harm upon others." -Nietzche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

              by KingofSpades on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:03:19 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  for what the DCCC is concerned about (11+ / 0-)

              it is not at the expense of the rest of Utah.  The other three districts are more conservative.  He's their only shot.  As to other incumbents more deserving of their support, they are probably in a better position to assess that than us.  They see much more polling than we do, they know what the priorities of House leadership are.  They generally know what they're doing.

              ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

              by James Allen on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:09:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Alright, you win. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                atdnext, ArkDem14, abgin

                I'm just frustrated at what I see as a lack of progress in Utah. I've repeatedly pointed at areas where I think the Utah Democrats could expand (even if only barely), and I think the focus on Matheson, Matheson, always and only Matheson is damaging to Utah Democratic efforts. After all, what happens if Matheson dies, decides to retire, or is defeated? Where is the Utah Democratic party then? 5 state senate seats, less than 20 state House seats, a couple of cities? Even other extremely red states have managed to have more potential Democratic candidates for anything than Utah does. We've got the one, and that's it. There's no push to expand, to find new ways to appeal. There's just the focus on Matheson, the pathetically conservative lapdog of the Republicans, who goes "me too" whenever a fellow member of the Utah Congressional delegation says something.

                It's frankly embarrassing.

                Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

                by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:20:39 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You need to be grateful for Matheson and... (6+ / 0-)

                  ...in the meantime work to reshape the electorate so that more and better Democrats can win.

                  The Utah you have will not elect anyone to federal office even an inch to the left of Matheson, and they accept Matheson only because they really like him personally.

                  Don't complain about Matheson's voting record when he's got gobs and gobs of votes in our favor that no Republican would cast, and you can't win with anyone else.

                  Instead, work to change the state.  It's freakin' hard, yes, but what choice do you have?

                  45, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

                  by DCCyclone on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:18:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  I'm taking a Game Theory this semester (5+ / 0-)

              First rule: you don't play your own hand, you play your opponent's.

              http://www.opensecrets.org/...

              http://www.opensecrets.org/...

              Every dollar we spend there is at minimum matched by the Republicans. Even if all your arguments hold (Matheson is conservative, isn't worth the money), we gain more by having him exist and suck up GOP dollars than we lose by spending on him. Just think of the extra vote for VAWA as a cherry on top.

              "Every daring attempt to make a great change in existing conditions, every lofty vision of new possibilities for the human race, has been labeled Utopian."

              by xcave on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:18:09 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't feel that that's an adequate justification (0+ / 0-)

                Simply blocking the Republicans and causing them to spend a little more money then the DCCC spends on him is not good enough, if he acts exactly like a Republican (which is shown in his votes), if he talks like a Republican (though I'm not so offended by that since it's Utah), and if he refuses to help the Utah Dems at all.

                Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

                by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:45:44 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Put it this way (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JBraden, MichaelNY

                  What if I told you that I was going to give the DCCC $10 to spend on Patrick Murphy in Florida but that I was also going to give the NRCC $20 to spend on Murphy's opponent? Would you say that I was helping Democrats or hurting them? Because that's essentially what would happen if we stopped helping Matheson.

                  The fact is that indifference is almost always a virtue in a game of limited resources. If your opponent wants something more than you do, then you're in a position of strength. Given that Republicans hate Matheson way more than we like him, that's clearly the case here. It would be utterly foolish to relinquish that advantage.

                  "Every daring attempt to make a great change in existing conditions, every lofty vision of new possibilities for the human race, has been labeled Utopian."

                  by xcave on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:54:52 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  To be fair, that's not the job... (6+ / 0-)

              Of the DCCC. The DCCC has no interest in party building. It just wants more House seats.

              This is why I so appreciated Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy when he was DNC Chair. IMHO this should be brought back.

              I can understand your frustration with the perpetual weakness of the Utah Democratic Party. I felt the same way in Orange County. That's why the DNC should revive the 50 State Strategy and help grassroots Utah Dems who want to revive their state party.

            •  VoteSmart (0+ / 0-)

              You live in the district and you go off a VoteSmart profile?  

              •  The local media doesn't really cover his votes (0+ / 0-)

                And while his own site gives a pretty good record of his votes, I don't stay on there longer than I have to. Plus, VoteSmart is handy,

                If it has a bias or whatnot though, I'll stop using it.

                Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

                by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:41:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  I get that you're from Matheson's district (6+ / 0-)

      but you're starting to sound like a broken record regarding him.

      •  Yeah, sorry. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bumiputera

        I do understand that I complain about Matheson too much. He's really just at the forefront of my frustration with Utah politics; the Republicans I expect to act stupid, the Dems I trust more. And that trust is continually broken.

        I also don't feel informed enough about politics outside of Utah to really post as an authoritative source, so it limits my options, kind of like how our resident Nevadan prefers to comment on Nevadan topics and so forth.

        Finally, the Republicans are usually ensured victory here in Utah, so there's no point to covering them in regards to electoral news. Plus, the Utah media rarely covers state politics.

        I suppose I can be a little bit softer on Matheson though.

        Leftist Mormon in Utah, Born in Washington State, live in UT-04 (Matheson).

        by Gygaxian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:45:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Matheson (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bumiputera, MichaelNY

          If you can election a progressive in any of Utah's districts, no one is stopping you.  I understand your frustration.  Of course he's going to break on some of the "bigger" votes, that's why they are controversial issues.

          Study Matheson, maybe you will find that his votes make sense in a representative democracy and not necessarily very well in a Parliamentary system

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