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View Diary: The Illinois Department of Public Health vs. Illinois Raw Milk Farmers (267 comments)

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  •  In fact I got in some very heated (0+ / 0-)

    discussions just the other day in regards to the EM laws here in which I argued that the right to vote at the local level was being circumvented, while others argued that the right to vote at the local level only exists if the states allow it to.

    So you can go ahead and say all you want that I don't think we have the right to vote, but that doesn't make it true.

    The fact that you are attempting to mislead people about what I've been saying recently, and what I believe, makes me wonder what else you're willing to mislead them about in order for you to appear right.  

    •  You're right (1+ / 0-)
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      The Dude 415

      The manner in which you phrased your argument confused me. You never once mentioned Scalia, which lead me to believe you were stating your own opinion. You also later said, "How does that contradict the central point of my argument, that the right of the citizens to vote is implied?" I thought that was your argument.

      I realize now that I was mistaken.

      I never intended to mislead anyone concerning your position, and if I was scanning your comments (and I was), it's because I wanted to know more about the ideological makeup of the people who would be opposed to raw milk.

      That WAS a bad choice on my part and in bad taste . . . but I think it's a natural inclination in this day of information over-saturation. I have no fucking clue who you are, who any of you are. The absence of a face and a voice makes commentary on these sites a difficult, alienating, anomic enterprise for me.

      •  It happens. (0+ / 0-)

        Especially when discussion gets somewhat heated.  I've done it myself recently, discussions about the fancy new Emergency Manager Detroit is getting.

        And I definitely understand about it being a natural inclination.

        As I said in another comment I just made to you, I have no interest in seeing the corporations you mentioned maintain their stranglehold, nor do I have any interest in keeping practices related to RGBH as they are now.

        However, as a history buff (and someone who minored in history), I also realize that a lot of these requirements, like requiring that milk be pasteurized, were implemented in the first place for legitimate public health reasons.  

        As someone who admittedly knows little about raw milk, the little that I've read hasn't had enough conclusiveness to assuage the concerns that I have.

        And being a skeptic, I'm instinctively distrustful of a site with a name like raw milk facts, since it seems to me like a site that may have an interest in cherry-picking the information that it uses.

        I certainly understand the concerns about the information the FDA and CDC are using, but I hope you understand why, to those of us who are a bit more skeptical, those concerns can also be seen to apply to the aforementioned sites.

        •  Those Are Valid Concerns (0+ / 0-)

          I've yet to gather the bailiwick of information that might constitute a groundbreaking new work of journalism, a New York Times Bestseller, a box office winner, but I am placing that item on my "to-do list."

          I do know that many of those sites reference academic journals, articles and additional referential websites. I also know when descriptions of raw milk farms are misleading, false or guilty of argumentum ad baculum, an appeal to fear, because I've had fist-hand experience with the raw milk farming industry. I also know that raw milk farming promotes local commerce and fosters community. I also know that fully-armed, helmeted Federal agents have busted down doors, invaded homes without warrants and held families at gun point while their milk was being dumped into the soil. I know The Feds suspected the milk to be contaminated and I know they later found no trace of any foodborne pathogens.

          We had to close The Federal Post Office on Saturdays because the country is strapped for cash. There are open air drug markets in Chicago. Detroit is turning into a ghost-town . . . and the Feds are convinced that the greatest threat to our safety is the milk?

        •  http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/ (0+ / 0-)

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