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View Diary: Anti-modernity GOP wants to catch up to Democrats on technology (235 comments)

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  •  Nothing they can't buy though... (7+ / 0-)

    Programmers, like anybody else will work for the highest bidder, politics/morals be damned if the $$ difference is enough.  

    If you're not talking about what billionaire hedgefund bankster Peter G. Peterson is up to you're having the wrong conversations.

    by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 09:35:36 AM PST

    •  So what? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      teknohed, milkbone, Aunt Pat, TerryDarc

      "Yeah, We'll take your money to write code, morans...
      Doesn't mean any of us will actually VOTE for any of your bullshit ideas or idiot candidates...." (followed by PeeWee Herman-style "ha-HA!")

      "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

      by leftykook on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 09:45:53 AM PST

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    •  Romney tried that. Didn't work out so hot. (32+ / 0-)

      There's a difference between hiring people to write code, and having true believers work together to reshape how campaigns are conducted.

      •  There is also the Dilbert factor (13+ / 0-)

        Republicans simply do not understand the meaning of design and quality control. They assume that throwing money at the problem is sufficient.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 10:30:00 AM PST

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        •  Truer words never spoken (7+ / 0-)

          I worked for an integrated hardware/software company in Texas where all the management was conservative, the developers were liberal. Management was ALWAYS trying to push product out the door before testing was finished, and when customers complained about buggy systems they wasted no time pointing the finger at the Quality Assurance lab. In the two years I worked there I saw three QA managers get fired. I think someone in our QA department actually coined the phrase "thrown under the bus."

          There are two types of republicans, the rich and the stupid. The rich ones strive to keep the stupid ones stupid and the stupid ones strive to keep the rich ones rich.

          by frankzappatista on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 10:50:50 AM PST

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        •  GOP Style-Witch Hunt, Blame Game, He Said She Said (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aunt Pat, greenotron, Eyesbright

          Picture management meetings run like the Benghazi with that incomprehensible passive aggressive neurotic babbling about how everything proves something horrible.

          Once a trace amount of that gets into the process, it's all over.  

          There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

          by bernardpliers on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 11:18:21 AM PST

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        •  Not throwing money at the problem (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eyesbright

          Throwing money at the management bonuses, and hiring the cheapest coders they can get.

          And, of course, "testing? What's that?"

          The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln

          by raboof on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 12:07:22 PM PST

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          •  H1Bs and/or Outsourcing (0+ / 0-)

            I can easily picture some paranoid Republicans deciding that there would be far less chance of their nefarious plans being leaked if they outsourced the coding or, barring that, hired H1Bs (the modern equivalent of indentured workers).  The fact that either of these would be far cheaper than hiring Americans is sweeter icing on the corporate cake.

            To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men. -Abraham Lincoln

            by Eyesbright on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 06:31:01 PM PST

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      •  I heard they had a problem with execution (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Pat, Eyesbright

        It's all well and good to have coders and analysts making up good target lists.  But if you don't have a game plan for getting that data out to operatives in the field, it's worthless.

        The GOP had volunteers begging for their materials as late as the night before the election.

      •  You can write all the code you want, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright

        in the end the code is only a tool to put data in the hands of the decision makers, and if the decision makers are people who are ideologically rigid and don't adjust their decisions based on the data in front of them, or even, like it looks the GOP did in the last election, wants to have the data "unskewed" so it matches their beliefs, the only thing you have a achieved is keep a number of coders off the dole.

        Repeal the 2nd amendment.

        by Calouste on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 12:43:19 PM PST

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    •  Or, they could sign up (8+ / 0-)

      the techno-libertarian Ayn Randists.  I think Kos is being a bit glib here, there's an element in the tech world that's not socially or movement conservative, but it's hardly progressive.  Just look at Steve Jobs' labor record, and I say this as an Apple-phile.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 09:53:45 AM PST

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      •  Most techie libertarians.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Pat, TerryDarc

        ...are not Ayn Rand true believers.  Some of them (who aren't insomniac enough to actually read her books) tend to equate Ayn Rand and libertarians.  But most of them are more liberaltarians than anything else.

        •  well, if the next few cycles (0+ / 0-)

          see a shift to emphasis on economic rather than social issues, the Republicans could draw from the tech sector more.  There's a parallel to Wall Street's political giving (socially liberal, fiscally conservative), which are tech companies more than anything else.  The major difference is there's more utopian thinking in pure tech, but that can tilt right as well as left, and there's more neocon stuff out of the financial sector.

          Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

          by Loge on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 11:01:27 AM PST

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        •  I Just Think Of Them As Really Compulsive (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TerryDarc, Eyesbright

          ...and thinking Rush is "funny."

          There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

          by bernardpliers on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 11:19:51 AM PST

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        •  liberaldregs, so tell me what is fair talk about (0+ / 0-)

          libertarians?  Their liberal support for social issues is a trade off?  What price must we pay?

          •  Fair talk is.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eyesbright

            ....that "libertarian" is kind of hard to pin down in terms of how they behave.  (Bear with me, I'm advocating a wedge strategy.)

            You have the Ayn Rand crowd, who are basically like dominionist Christians, except that their god is secular (sort of; a lot of public followers of Ayn Rand are in fact religious fundamentalists).

            You have a very large population who are right wingers who claim to be anti-government: this is basically the whole tea party crowd.  The only liberty they favor is the second amendment and the right to commit hate crimes with impunity.

            You have the Goldwater types (this is actually a dying breed) who really believe the government hands-off stuff and are now under huge cross pressure.  (There are relatively few people who think that the government shouldn't regulate private behavior but should also advocate laissez-fair capitalism, because there are just too many contradictions.

            You have the "liberaltarians" I mentioned.  These are people who are solidly liberal on cultural issues (including favoring environmental laws and consumer protection laws), often hostile to big business, but who inherit the libertarian belief that the government is too big and too expensive and its regulations are too burdensome).  You DO trade off with them because it's always a win for us.  (One example involving a co-worker involved a discussion about highways.  He'd gone on a diatribe about how state government wasted his tax money on public works.  When reminded that highways are paid for by taxes, his attitude was "oh, no, I'd definitely pay more taxes for that.")  This is a modestly large voter segment who actually don't vote for Republicans much any more.  Here, we need to point out that liberals are the true advocates of limited government, which doesn't mean "tear it all down" but "do things that work."  Now, having said that, much of this has happened -- the term "liberaltarian" came about because a lot of these people decided that they were really liberals.

            So we're not trading off anything. Just framing progressivism to people who might be inclined to start seeing things our way if it's presented in a way that doesn't threaten their concept of "freedom."

      •  They'd Need To Ditch The Talibornagain Wing (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aythem, TerryDarc, Eyesbright

        Regressive big-government moralism (and, worst, the anti-rationalist worldview underlying it) repels most of the techies who might otherwise be attracted by doctrinare allergy to taxes.

        On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

        by stevemb on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 11:15:10 AM PST

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      •  A perfect example was Harper Reed, Obama CTO (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright

        Good point. Harper Reed, the colorful Hacker-phile CTO for Obama for America admitted that he was  libertarian type when he was hired and it took him a while to understand the depth of philosophical commitment of Field Director Jeremy Bird & Battleground States Director Mitch Stewart to Obama's cause.

        Reed said it wasn't until it came to crunch time that what was at stake in the election hit him and the others in The Cave (Obama digital operation).

        "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them." -- Pres. Obama (1/20/2009)

        by zizi on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:50:53 PM PST

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    •  Maybe (18+ / 0-)

      but good programmers are hard to find.

      And if you don't understand a damn thing about how computers work, and how data analysis works, and you don't know how to work with people who do... you get what you pay for.

      Piss off a toady, or a salesman, and they either kick the dog or you find somebody else.

      Piss off a programmer, and you find nothing works, and there's no documentation so fixing it will take three times longer than it took to mess things up to start with.

      Again, if you make unreasonable demands and/or act like a self-righteous asshole, programmers have their ways of making your life a living hell...

      That goes for hardware and networking guys too. Don't piss them off. You WILL regret it.

      And most of them can get another job faster than you can fire them. Quite possibly at as much, or more, than you're paying them.

      Especially the GOP. They're cheap bastards who can't do crap but think they know everything.

      •  You can sometimes get away (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mmacdDE, Eyesbright

        with pissing off a programmer. That is, if the product has shipped and you don't care about upgrades or bug fixes.

        You can never get away with pissing off a sysadmin.

        (former programmer here ... )

        The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln

        by raboof on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 12:10:16 PM PST

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    •  Can't afford it (0+ / 0-)

      College grads here make $100K.

      The people with real experience make $200K and up after bonuses.

      There's no way the GOP will pay that to anyone but their hacks.

      •  $200K? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright

        Maybe if you're a project leader at Microsoft or Apple.

        Seriously, where does a programmer make that kind of money?

        The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln

        by raboof on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 12:11:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  where do they make it? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eyesbright, raboof

          In the Bay Area at big tech cos: Microsoft, Google, Apple, Netflix etc.  

          Salary for an engineer with 5-10ish years of experience is ~125-170K.

          Bonuses = 10-30% of salary.

          Then there's stock options that might appreciate (lots of Apple millionaires nowadays...)

          If you're an architect or an upper-level engineering manager, you make 200K+

          If you're at a startup, the salaries are lower, but people are hoping for a big payout via IPO or acquisition.

    •  But money isn't the most important motivator, (0+ / 0-)

      accomplishment, meaningful work, reasonable and fair management, ethical goals...these are what really motivate people.

      Damn the Regressives, full speed ahead!

      by Nautical Knots on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 10:18:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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