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View Diary: Sen. Patrick Leahy to introduce bipartisan gun-trafficking law, a merger of previous proposals (103 comments)

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  •  Bob Johnson is a nut... (5+ / 0-)

    and should probably be locked up...but how did he cause the NRA...along with Wayne LaDerrière to help push thru 99 laws in 4 years...besides the previous 30 years of their BS lobbying.

    I cannot remember even one response that addressed the concern of confiscation in anything but the most dismissive and patronizing of tones.
    ...maybe because talk of confiscation sounds like conspiracy theory to most of us...when has anybody confiscated weapons in America..??..besides from criminals..??..or those found by a court to be a danger..??


    We are not broke, we are being robbed.

    by Glen The Plumber on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 05:13:21 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  The only time (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, ColoTim

      there was anything close to gun confiscation in America was with the SKS rifle in California. This took place after they were required to be registered.

      Registration is a prerequisite for confiscation. Confiscation can't happen without a list of people who own guns. The only reason "it can't happen here" is because there is for the most part no registration of guns in this country.

      when has anybody confiscated weapons in America..??
      Never, because they wouldn't know where to start.

      "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

      by happy camper on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 05:46:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly..!!..even after the CA AWB...which (4+ / 0-)

        included outlawing existing specified guns...only cases of confiscation were from a few cases when they were taken from criminals.

        I do favor an AWB...which you may not...but take those out...and how are CA registration laws so scary..??..pretty much non-existent...

        How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?
        There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.
        I think the registration=confiscation theme is overplayed...and just seems paranoid...if a weapon is deemed inappropriate for public use...so be it...and you still have the 2a...which will limit any laws proposed.


        We are not broke, we are being robbed.

        by Glen The Plumber on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 06:40:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're still missing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          the point. It doesn't matter if you, or I, or anyone else thinks registration is an innocuous record keeping exercise that will keep criminals from getting their hands on firearms, while never, ever resulting in confiscation. The people whose cooperation is necessary for any gun control measures to pass do not see it that way. There are proposals to make NICS available for private sales while not keeping permanent records of specific transfers. I believe that would make a significant difference in transfers to prohibited persons, while not incurring the opposition of most gun owners.

          Nobody wants criminals to have guns.

          As for an AWB, this proposal would ban sales of a class of firearm that is used in less than 1% of all murders. Other than the ability to accept large magazines, there is no functional difference between an AR-15 and a plain-vanilla semi automatic .30-06 deer rifle. It is estimated that roughly half of all guns--rifles, shotguns, and pistols--in the US are semi-automatics. To people familiar with these technical matters--which are usually deemed irrelevant and dismissed by those who desire gun control--this is not a minor thing. If one flavor of semi-auto gun can be banned because it's a semi-auto gun, well... what's to stop other semi-auto guns from being banned? Other than the good will of our future leaders?

          You need to understand, most of the people opposed to registration and weapon bans based on irrelevant features like military looks, bayonet lugs, and flash suppressors, are not militia nuts, zombie apocalypse preppers, or crazed NRA members. They are normal people who happen to take a very different view of these issues. And again, if you want to get anything done, a significant number of gun owners are going to have to be on board.

          "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

          by happy camper on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 08:21:06 AM PST

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          •  I agree 99%... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            happy camper
            are not militia nuts, zombie apocalypse preppers, or crazed NRA members.
            ...not all...but some are. ;7)

            I think I've mentioned before...the AWB is lowest on my list of things to do.

            There are proposals to make NICS available for private sales while not keeping permanent records of specific transfers. I believe that would make a significant difference in transfers to prohibited persons, while not incurring the opposition of most gun owners.
            ...100% with you...but as far as I have seen...there has been no or very few suggestions of registrations...except for a few commenters on blogs...we don't get to propose laws...that is why I get so crazed when the conversation devolves to "confiscation."

            a robust background check system for all sales of guns and ammo is what I favor...along with better mental health access...I think these would have the most impact...without infringing on anybodies rights.

            also like Obama's idea about training teachers to better spot students that may have issues...hope it includes getting the young people help.


            We are not broke, we are being robbed.

            by Glen The Plumber on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 08:51:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  In the state of New York (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber

              registration is now the law.
              http://www.npr.org/...
              People who have harmed nobody are being deemed criminals by the state if they possess certain weapons or fail to register their guns. Actual criminals will be unaffected by this law, except as an extra charge when they get caught robbing or shooting someone with their unregistered gun.

              I'm 100% with you on mental health access and early intervention for kids (and others) with problems. Every one of these recent mass shooters exhibited signs of serious problems, yet no help was offered, or it was too little too late, or as in the case of the VA Tech guy, his mental issues were not reported to NICS.

              I have noted a lack of discussion too about law enforcement efforts focused on actual known criminals, who are responsible for a large number of murders. The city of Hartford, CT, achieved a 40% reduction in murders in one year by concentrating their efforts on known criminals.

              The short form is that Hartford law enforcement worked to:

              • predict retaliatory shootings
              • identify potential future shooters or victims
              • establish a regional stolen firearms protocol
              • target the city's most violent criminals

              Note what is missing from this list (and the news story). Absolutely no mention of making it harder for law-abiding, peaceful citizens to acquire firearms.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              http://www.courant.com/...

              We need to make sure we don't ignore the low hanging fruit here... Events like the Giffords shooting or Sandy Hook get huge headlines, but the great majority of murders are in urban settings, often gang violence and criminals shooting other criminals, one victim at a time, and barely a blip on the news report unless innocents are caught in the crossfire.

              "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

              by happy camper on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 07:02:41 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  yep...many different problems... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                happy camper

                with many different solutions needed.

                the other day I saw a pro-gun'r complaining that he was for improved background checks...and he wished he could find a pro-gun control'r that supports the same...without wanting all guns on the planet banned.

                I think most on both sides agree on many subjects...yet are just yelling past each other...thank you for the reasonable discussion.


                We are not broke, we are being robbed.

                by Glen The Plumber on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 04:06:18 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  I used DiFi and BJ as an example of (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim

      the voices that give wackos like LaDerriare (I like that one, the guy really is an ass) credibility when they scream "they're coming to take your guns".  without legislation coming from people who are on record as wanting to ban all guns, and without people dedicated to shutting down all intelligent discussion of the issue through unrelenting, one-note mockery of anyone who doesn't pass some anti-gun purity test, the extreme pro-gun side would sound a lot crazier to the middle.  without the winning over the middle, how do we get any positive change?

      regardless of whether you think confiscation is realistic or not, we all know what reaction bringing up registration will get.  why fight over it at the expense of a life-saving alternative that everyone can agree on?  again, why are we picking the same fight I've been seeing go nowhere for my entire life?

      if you take away anything from this exchange, please let it be that I believe the form of the debate is the main cause of the status quo that so many of us are unhappy with.

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