Skip to main content

View Diary: Shipping/Drilling in the Arctic is Good for the Economy Like Cannibalism is Nutritious (21 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I'll agree on the overall assumption (0+ / 0-)

    That individual ships and their disturbances aren't the real problem. The real problem is people thinking there's anything to be gained by what's happening in the Arctic and if there is, that there's any moral justification whatsoever in trying to profit from it. From a certain standpoint of course, cannibalism is nutritious.

    When you put a sign up next to a freeway, people will read it until someone takes it down.

    by freewayblogger on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:42:48 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Arctic shipping, I'm afraid, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      freewayblogger

      is simply part (a very small part) of necessary "adaptation".  

      We have fundamentally changed how our world works, and one way or another have to live with the consequences.  I see no "moral imperative" to pretend otherwise.

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:51:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  As far as consequences go... (0+ / 0-)

        We won't be living with them like our children will, and they won't be living with them the way their children will. That's where the moral imperative kicks in.

        When you put a sign up next to a freeway, people will read it until someone takes it down.

        by freewayblogger on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 10:01:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If our children (or grandchildren), (0+ / 0-)

          choose to look at a year-round ice-free Arctic and say "we don't go that way, because it didn't used to be like that" it is, of course, their business.

          If I'm still around, however, I'll advise them to not be so silly . . .

          Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

          by Deward Hastings on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 10:14:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  They'll probably be more concerned (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Deward Hastings

            with the collapse of all the ecosystems, wildlife and agriculture by that point. So yes, a ban on trans-arctic shipping will probably seem a bit silly. Good point.

            When you put a sign up next to a freeway, people will read it until someone takes it down.

            by freewayblogger on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 10:30:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think the source of our disconnect (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              marsanges

              Is that I'm looking at the arctic in terms of its effect on the gulf stream, jet stream, weather patterns, effect on agriculture and the like. If it was simply a matter of ice or no ice on the top of the world I'd say go ahead, ship away. My apologies for not making that clear.

              When you put a sign up next to a freeway, people will read it until someone takes it down.

              by freewayblogger on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 11:38:26 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I wish (0+ / 0-)

                so fervently that there were any actual conservatives still left: people that felt that we should conserve the Earth - I dont mind if they did it because they believe its God´s creation, or if they believe its their duty to the Great Manitou - if only they would preserve it. There once was a TED talk of one Jeremy Jackson, an old oceanographer of Woods Hole: a "simple" talk about how the oceans changed before his eyes, how the bounty that once was, is gobe forever, and people of today dont even realize that they are looking at a manmade biological desert while they´re trying to "protect" it with honest heart. It was one of the most moving talks I have ever seen and it begs the question, how dare we? Conservatives (once) prided themselves on their sense for morality. I wish we had some of them left, who actually recognized the immoral enormity of what we are doing, and held us to Kant´s standard. They are gone, it seems, where are they?

                •  we are bounded (0+ / 0-)

                  on the one had by what we know, and the other by what we can do.

                  Whether it's Atlantic Cod or Pacific Redwood forests or Glen Canyon or Arctic ice they are gone, and all the hand wringing and regrets that we can muster won't "fix" that.  There is very little of what once was left to "conserve", and we are left with little more than "oh shit, now what".  How to tease some sort of "morality" out of that is neither clear nor simple . . .

                  Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

                  by Deward Hastings on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 04:52:52 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site