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  •  Sure, I believe in values (0+ / 0-)

    and believe in the value of the principles you list.

    But legislation or a constitution is something you support, or you don't support, you advocate for or against it, or you elect representatives to advocate for your interests.

    Saying one believes in the 2A is like saying they believe in money.

    Money has no inherent value. It only has value as a unit of currency because of the legal structures in place and the consent of the governed.

    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

    by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:10:41 AM PST

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    •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

      On balance, I agree.  However, certainly some legislation rises to statements on fundamental values.  And constitutions, for better or worse, rife with such statements.  To say I believe in the Second Amendment is to say I believe in the value it embodies.  To dwell on the phrasing is pedantic at best; you obviously understand the thought conveyed by saying "I believe in X."

      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

      by Patrick Costighan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:20:01 AM PST

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      •  Pedantic perhaps (0+ / 0-)

        but if you are willing to advocate for the values, for the human rights, you might be able to cut through some of the crap.

        When you say you believe in the 2A you open up endless squabbling over a flawed legal instrument.

        You think I'm just being pedantic, but I invite you to try it differently and see what happens.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:26:46 AM PST

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        •  Re: Don't sweat it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KVoimakas

          I have no intentions of debating 2A with you.  But I do intend to continue saying "I believe in the Second Amendment."  You're free to tune that out when you come across it.

          When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

          by Patrick Costighan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:30:04 AM PST

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          •  Okay, you're going to stick with your approach (0+ / 0-)

            How will you know when it's working?

            How will you know when it's persuasive?

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:48:37 AM PST

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            •  Re (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KVoimakas

              It's not meant to be persuasive.  It's a simple statement of fact.  If hearing "I believe in the Second Amendment" is enough to turn you off--it obviously isn't, since you're still engaging--then it's probably not worth my time to pursue further conversation.  I doubt this is a terribly common infliction amongst even the most diehard gun control proponents.

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 11:58:03 AM PST

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