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  •  Lethal drone strikes are out. (7+ / 0-)

    One small step for the Bill of Rights.


    "Information is power. But like all power there are those who want to keep it for themselves" Aaron Swartz, 1986 - 2013
    TheStarsHollowGazette.com

    by TheMomCat on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 01:03:34 PM PST

    •  I seriously doubt that (8+ / 0-)

      If they can use 'em, they will. They'll just make sure to do it "lawfully".

      Like credit default swaps.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 01:07:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It was a welcome, explicit, clear and (0+ / 0-)

      unambiguous answer.

      It ought never to have been necessary to ask the question. This clear answer is welcome mitigation of the black mark against this country, and this administration, that the situation merited the question in the first place.

      •  Hmm (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, shaharazade, aliasalias

        They only ruled out using drones.

        The bigger the question is the right to due process. Holder's opinions on that leave a lot to be desired. He still didn't say that the president can't order some one killed on American soil without due process.


        "Information is power. But like all power there are those who want to keep it for themselves" Aaron Swartz, 1986 - 2013
        TheStarsHollowGazette.com

        by TheMomCat on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 01:25:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's about the right to due process (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Justus

          of non-combatants. Combatants do not have the right to due process, that's a settled debate. If you fire on US Citizens or US Soldiers you prove yourself guilty on the battlefield. Non-combatants on the other hand...that's a tricky question.

          Rand Paul raised some interesting questions:

          Where is the battle space? I think that it's unlawful for the DoD and the executive office to define the battle space as everywhere and unending.

          Who is an enemy non-combatant, and where are they guaranteed the right to due process? By simply talking to militant muslim radicals enough to make you an enemy non-combatant? Are they only guaranteed the right to due process inside the territories of the United States?

          These questions are important questions regardless of drone use. They would be equally important if it were a SEAL team the white house were using every time.

        •  Maybe the Feds (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TheMomCat, aliasalias

          won't drone you as a terrorist, but there going to be handing them out to the police soon. So watch the skies and don't cause any trouble cause the new ones will apparently be able to inside your house. They will find out if your naughty or nice.

      •  Because people who are willing to encourage (4+ / 0-)

        torture and who condone the killing of Americans via drones would never lie to Congress.

      •  hahaha you've got to be kidding me (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        420 forever, aliasalias, NonnyO

        You could drive a fucking truck (or fly a fleet of drones) through the hole Holder left in that statement.

        “It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: ‘Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?’” Holder wrote. “The answer to that question is no.”
        Notice the question is not; "Does the president have the authority to used drones against Americans?" or "Does the president have the authority to use drones on American soil?" nor does he elaborate on the "not engaged in combat" portion.

        Instead, he throws out a guarded statement only applying to the wildest scenario imaginable, killing an innocent American with a drone.

        Who the fuck thinks that's actually somethign being debated?

      •  except it only addressed American citizens on (0+ / 0-)

        american soil. What about non-citizens on american soil?

        That quote about GDP by Robert Kennedy

        by erichiro on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 04:59:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  With this administration we should take (0+ / 0-)

          what we can get. IPU knows that precious little in the way of defending certain rights or advocating for anything that even vaguely comes close to center-left will come out of this administration. It's too cozy with Republicans.

    •  Well, one right, anyway... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias, 420 forever

      I'm not forgetting that there has been no repeal of AUMF, Patriot Act, MCA '06, MCA '09, FISA fiasco '08, or 'office of faith-based initiatives.'

      Keith Olbermann on the Bill of Right! -American's one right

      Keith Olbermann: October 17, 2006

      Keith Olbermann: "Today, 135 years to the day after the last American President (Ulysses S. Grant) suspended habeas corpus, President Bush signed into law the Military Commissions Act of 2006. At its worst, the legislation allows President Bush or Donald Rumsfeld to declare anyone — US citizen or not — an enemy combatant, lock them up and throw away the key without a chance to prove their innocence in a court of law. In other words, every thing the Founding Fathers fought the British empire to free themselves of was reversed and nullified with the stroke of a pen, all under the guise of the War on Terror."

      Jonathan Turley: "People have no idea how significant this is. Really a time of shame this is for the American system.—The strange thing is that we have become sort of constitutional couch potatoes. The Congress just gave the President despotic powers and you could hear the yawn across the country as people turned to Dancing With the Stars. It's otherworldly..People clearly don't realize what a fundamental change it is about who we are as a country. What happened today changed us. And I'm not too sure we're gonna change back anytime soon."

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 04:46:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  repeal? Hell they've been expanded (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NonnyO

        Thanks for posting that btw, it deserves to be in a lot of diaries.(not snark)

        without the ants the rainforest dies

        by aliasalias on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 05:13:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  :'( Expanded, I know... :'( (2+ / 0-)

          I could weep in frustration about the illegal and unconstitutional things that have been done without our consent.  It's like taxation without representation, but this time it's laws taking our rights away without our consent, and done by our elected representatives, no less.  Don't they realize they're giving up their own rights at the same time?

          When the Senate was 'debating' MCA '06 I was glued to C-SPAN that day, and Leahy and Kennedy brought me to tears arguing against passing the law, and in favor of an amendment that did not take away habeas corpus.  The amendment did not pass, and later that idiotic law passed.  Adding insult to injury was MCA '09 passed under Obama.

          Suggestion: go to the links in the titles of the videos, put them in your Favorites files, and when I'm not around post them (in appropriate diaries about our lost rights and where our lost rights are talked about).  Ditto the Bill Moyers Journal episode for 13 June 2007 where John Nichols talks about that little metaphorical cherry wood box adding and taking away presidential powers.  That was positively prescient.  (The third section of the video for that day was the commentary and does not pertain to the first two sections of the episode.)

          I agree, we need to remember the rights we do not have now, even if we/they act like we still have them.  People forget those illegal and unconstitutional laws have never been repealed, and we should be screaming at out Congress Critters to give us back our rights.

          I'm no longer sure we'll get habeas corpus and/or our unalienable rights back during my lifetime (I'm old).  I want to be wrong in thinking that hunch.  [Oh, please, please, please let me be wrong!]

          {{{Thanks for the thumb's up, aliasalias!}}}

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 05:34:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I posted them both on FB just to give perspective (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NonnyO

            for those that may not be noticing how quickly we are losing rights that weren't easy to get in the first place, how slow people are in realizing it and what it can mean to them and everyone else.
            What's even worse is that in fact we do not know how much we have lost, just ask members of Congress like Sen. Wyden who said the American people would be shocked to know how the Patriot Act is being interpreted by the Obama administration. I think it's safe to guess it isn't in the direction of something good, also because if so it would've been paraded around the media (Lily Ledbetter!).

             Imagine in 2008 Obama saying he supported a CPI for Soc. Security (along with raising the age requirement), the privatization of education (Charter Schools),that he would have a secret Kill List, use indefinite detention,sign off on Drone bombings of weddings, funerals, first responders (and the evil 'double tap' hits which ARE a war crime) ,claim he can kill anyone anywhere for reason that can only be known to him and a few (unelected) people, not only renew but expand the Patriot Act,appoint John Brennan-Bernanke-Geither-Summers etc.,appoint Wall Street people and CEO execs (even as Staff), a 'NAFTA on steroids' negotiated in private (and set for fast track in Congress) and...just too damn many things to list.

            What makes it worse is support from the so-called 'left' many of which screamed about things Bush did but are silent (or worse with loud support) about it when it's Obama doing either the same things or even worse, for example Bush stuck people in GITMO ,Obama just has them blown up (along with others).
             Like the reality of Climate change deniers very few will be exempt from the results of all this and it reminds me of the 60's saying about 'you're either part of the solution or you are part of the problem'.

            There are a lot of bread and circuses out there but as things get worse, and they will because they can't get better by doing the wrong things, people won't be able to afford the distractions which means things are gonna get even worse in the mix between the people and law enforcement. People will literally have nothing left to lose.

            Welcome to the Shock Doctrine....with a smile.

            without the ants the rainforest dies

            by aliasalias on Thu Mar 07, 2013 at 08:09:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And I noticed Meteor Blades'... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aliasalias

              ... open diary where the headline is about Holder's statement regarding bankers too big to jail.

              Gee, thanks, Bill Clinton, for removing all regulations for banks with the 1999 signing of Gramm-Leach-Bliley which repealed Glass-Steagall and its regulations....  [Not!]

              I do hope the realization of what we have lost hits someone soon so someone with cooler heads can start repealing all the bad legislation passed during the Bushista years (and added to in the Obama years).

              I fear too many are too concerned with Reality TV to pay attention.

              It's just incredibly sad, sad, sad....

              ;'(

              I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

              by NonnyO on Fri Mar 08, 2013 at 12:27:05 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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