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  •  "Cleaning" doesn't mean what you think (1+ / 0-)
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    It's not like washing a car.

    It's the inside of a gun that needs to be cleaned. Powder and lead make a mess.

    To clean the inside, in almost all cases you start by taking the gun apart partways.

    A disassembled gun won't fire. Even if step one weren't "unload it whether it needs it or not".

    My first reaction on hearing "went off while cleaning" is that the person is lying. Hey, there's a car analogy here! It's like saying "I ran over him while changing the oil".

    In addition, someone who didn't obey the unbreakable rule about muzzle direction was irresponsible before the gun went off. There's an objective definition of "responsible" that saves the discussion from falling into the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

    Can you understand why someone who devotes care and attention to following safety rules gets nettled when lumped in with people who don't?

    Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

    by Dogs are fuzzy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 02:27:35 PM PDT

    •  Okay, so preparing to clean, not cleaning. (5+ / 0-)

      I'm pretty sure we all know that cleaning a gun is about cleaning the inside; surely if I knew that, most people do.

      Also, the point of these is that number of responsible gun owners is far lower than the number of gun owners in total. And there are enough irresponsible ones that measures to reduce the harm caused by them (regulations, training requirements, what-have-you) are more than called for.

      IOW, we're not arguing that there are no responsible gun owners. We're arguing against the NRA's apparent contention that all gun owners are responsible, law-abiding citizens, or at any rate that so few of them are irresponsible that restrictions on gun ownership are unnecessary.

      Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
      Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
      Code Monkey like you!

      Formerly known as Jyrinx.

      by Code Monkey on Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 02:47:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So those listed here are lying. (3+ / 0-)

      Certainly could be true. Either way, it puts a giant hole in the Responsible Gun Owner meme. Why so much lying to the police and health care providers?

      But yes, I actually did know that.

      I can indeed understand why someone who devotes care and attention to following safety rules gets upset about this. And I have seen it suggested by gun advocates that those who get upset are going to have to be the people to stop indulging the ones who give the rest a bad name. No more back-slapping down at the range and the gun shop. Sloppy and careless gun owners get ostracized. "No, you can't shoot with me. No, you can't see my weapons. No, I don't want to see yours. I take this seriously and only share with others who do, too."

      I think that'd be a great idea.

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