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View Diary: He's Not Even Pretending Anymore (209 comments)

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  •  Fair enough, and well stated. (7+ / 0-)

    I can see why drones make a lot of people uncomfortable even though I don't have a problem with their limited use. For one thing, drones don't kill any worse than bombs or guns do; and those weapons could certainly be abused. Also, we permit police to use lethal force on American citizens on US soil all the time, so I don't see why this or any other President shouldn't have that same power for use in extraordinary circumstances. Obama would be irresponsible to rule out the use of lethal force on Americans on American soil, and the idea that that shouldn't ever happen is absurd.

    My problem with drones is that, because they're unmanned, they create an adverse incentive for our over-reliance on them. OTOH, I can see Brennan's case that, if used judiciously, drones are a more ethical weapon than say a conventional troop deployment that would result in more deaths, or a less accurate conventional munition that would result in more death.

    I think (although I don't know this, it's just speculation) that Obama believes drones are useful to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons. I'm by no means a military expert or an expert on nuclear proliferation, but I believe there's a case to be made for that.

    •  you are ignoring the slope we are on (3+ / 0-)

      you're for limited use of drones, including in the U.S. against U.S. citizens. B-fricking-S.
      We cannot allow ANY President to have unchecked power of life and death.
      We need to repeal the patriot act and need to at least put the FISA court back into the chain for approving wiretaps/email intercepts.
      The way we are going it will not be long before anyone can secretly be declared an 'enemy of the state' and executed without any legal process at all.
      It was only about 30 years ago that the FISA court was established and a lot of people then (including me) were upset about the creation of a STAR Chamber like court. Evidence heard in secret by a secret court with no real oversight by anyone. Now here we are talking about how it's OK for the President to kill U.S. Citizens in the U.S. without any oversight what so ever.
      So glad I spent 24 years of my life protecting the Constitution when so many are willing to piss it away with such recklessness.

      The Republican model for America is China. One party, corporations are one with the party and the workers are cogs.

      by vet24 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 at 07:19:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The power to use drones is not unchecked. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ahianne, offgrid
        you're for limited use of drones, including in the U.S. against U.S. citizens. B-fricking-S.
        We cannot allow ANY President to have unchecked power of life and death.
        You're falsely conflating the use of drones with unchecked power. The President can be impeached and removed from office if he abuses his power.
        We need to repeal the patriot act and need to at least put the FISA court back into the chain for approving wiretaps/email intercepts.
        I agree with this.
        Now here we are talking about how it's OK for the President to kill U.S. Citizens in the U.S. without any oversight what so ever.
        But it is legal, under certain circumstances. It's never OK, but it's not necessarily illegal.
        So glad I spent 24 years of my life protecting the Constitution when so many are willing to piss it away with such recklessness.
        Is it reckless for the President to order the shooting down of a domestic flight that has been commandeered by terrorists? Is it reckless for the President to use force on those who take up arms to rebel against the government. Both those are examples of the President using lethal force without due process.

        I'm assuming from your handle that you're a veteran. I appreciate your service, and I respectfully disagree with your arguments.

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