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  •  Silenced the left? (5+ / 0-)

    I sure don't notice the Left being silenced.
    I saw a lot of the anti war movement get so thoroughly ignored that it basically discouraged that entire group of leaders and sent us to rethinking our strategy and tactics, but that was under BushCheney.
    I've seen one mainstream media corporation become MUCH more progressive that it was under BushCheney since Obama was elected. I've seen Occupy come and go, leaving a big shift in political discourse, all the way up through the WhiteHouse. I notice that Lefty sites are still in operation, even the ones that REALLY hate Obama.
    What silencing of the Left are you talking about?

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 06:06:19 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  as you seem to have (8+ / 0-)

      either a very skewed perspective of what happened electorally in 2010--either that or no fucking clue, I don't image you understand the marginalization that went on either, but you don't think the President owes the left fuck-all, anyway, do you?

      I shave my legs with Occam's razor~

      by triv33 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 06:12:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So you see widespread criticism of free markets (10+ / 0-)

      on the TV? In the papers?

      How about Austerity? There's a glut of people who are talking about raising corporate tax rates?

      How about increasing SS benefits?

      What about properly computing Unemployment and Inflation?

      I can't believe you say that the Left is not marginalized and silenced.

      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

      by k9disc on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 06:22:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Much to your dismay (10+ / 0-)

      No we will not shut up.

      What happened is all the fake Democrats quit complaining about child killing and the rest of us have been chastised for mentioning it.

      You mean the WH speakerbox that fired all dissenters? Yeah MSNBC may as well be labeled "transcript editors". That's the problem. people like you think that pablum spoon fed garbage is progressive.

      There are no sacred cows.

      by LaEscapee on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 06:24:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was silenced (11+ / 0-)

      by the end of a club wielded by police in Portland while attending Occupy rallies.

      People have been attacked for their political beliefs in my city by the local and Federal Police, both of which were under Democratic control.

      I've personally witnessed broken noses, broken wrists, injured spines, chemical attacks on civilians at Occupy events.

      There's a lot more silencing going on than you think.

      And right here on dkos is the constant barrage of attacks on people who do their civic duty by speaking their minds.

      What silencing of the Left are you talking about?
      I'm increasingly worried that if I keep speaking out locally, I won't be able to get a job.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 06:44:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is the price I have paid for standing up (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poco, Yasuragi, vcmvo2, WB Reeves

        and opening my mouth since the early 60s. And it does impact your earning potential. If that is an issue, you are faced with an awful choice. If you go out to fight the power don't be surprised when it fights back and it's bigger than you. And meaner than you. And more brutal.
        I chose to continue to speak out and I have paid for it ever since. I'm not sure that I can, in good conscience, encourage anyone to follow my footsteps, they lead into frustration and poverty.
        This is one of the prime reasons that I want people to work smarter. Don't fall into the same stupid gullies that I and my cohort did, learn from our mistakes if not our successes.
        And one of the mistakes we often made was targeting the wrong people. In a democracy, you need allies. To set yourself up against ALL of the "establishment" makes you an isolated and easy target. With a huge number of shooters arrayed against you.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:21:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I notice you're speakijng to me as if (8+ / 0-)

          you have vastly greater experience and thus have decided I need your advice. I went to my first protest when I was twelve, with my father, in the 60s.

          Yep... and I've joined Occupy, as well. And I won't ally myself with people who support extrajudicial murder of people attending funerals, and of first responders helping the wounded. That is a war crime.

          I know where to draw the line, which is something too many have forgotten. An alliance is no better than the partners which constitute it.

          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

          by ZhenRen on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:29:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "I know where to draw the line" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Yasuragi

            So do you vote? Did you vote for either of the two national parties? Is there anyone pure enough for you to support?

            If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

            by CwV on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:38:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I realize (6+ / 0-)

              I called this a "free for all" but not one person in the world has the right to ask who what and when anybody voted.

              There are no sacred cows.

              by LaEscapee on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:41:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I notice... (9+ / 0-)

              you ignored this:

              And I won't ally myself with people who support extrajudicial murder of people attending funerals, and of first responders helping the wounded.
              If not supporting war crimes is, in your mind, a demand for impossible levels of "purity" then you may not be a person whose judgement is helpful here.

              And, if the political market place of ideas is now so devolved that we can do no better than support people who commit crimes of war, then no, I will not vote for this.

              A person of conscience has a duty to speak out and protest, and sometimes that means withdrawing a vote. If that somehow goes over your head, you're part of the problem.

              "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

              by ZhenRen on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 07:47:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "sometimes that means withdrawing a vote" (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Yasuragi, Diogenes2008

                and how is that different from not turning out? Or voting third party to "teach them all a lesson"?
                In the real world, there are two parties and one of them is going to win, neither of them is perfect, neither of them will be 100% in line with your beliefs. You balance which one will be most along your line.
                The alternative to Obama was first McCain then Rmoney, do you think either of them would have been BETTER on drones? How about any other issue?
                This is devolving into exactly the same bullsh!t purity argument I've heard for DECADES from naive "Pure Left" folk and it goes nowhere.
                 I should have known from a post named Full On Meta that this would be where it went.
                Good night.
                Have fun playing with yourselves.

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 08:03:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Nonsense (8+ / 0-)

                  I suppose I am a modern equivalent of Henry
                  David Thoreau, when he was in jail in an act of civil disobedience:

                  Thoreau's world-famous essay, Civil Disobedience, grew out of a night in July 1846 when he was detained in Concord jail for nonpayment of the poll tax. Henry had refused to pay the tax because of its association with the institution of slavery. His maiden Aunt Maria, without asking Thoreau, paid his tax and secured his release. Henry, wanting to continue his protest, was furious. Ralph Waldo Emerson is reputed to have visited Thoreau in his jail cell. "Why are you here?" Emerson asked. "Why are you not here?" Thoreau replied.
                  You ask why I don't vote for war crimes.

                  I, in turn, answer by asking you why you did vote for war crimes?

                  You are so indoctrinated to being subservient to the corrupted and compromised electoral process that you just can't imagine any other choice. But if you could, and if millions more would wake up with you, then things could change. As long as you dutifully vote for whom the wealthy class selects for you, then you are the problem, not the solution. As it stands, your votes are bringing the planet to the edge of ruin. Please wake the fuck up, and wake up soon.

                  "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                  by ZhenRen on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 08:26:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  and the alternative to Hillary in 2016 (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  LaEscapee, triv33, poligirl, ZhenRen

                  is Romney or Jeb Bush.  We can keep playing that game forever.

                  It's an accusation that is pretty meaningless.  Americans are suppose to criticize their leaders when they have good reason.  Taking that criticism and learning from it comes with the job of POTUS.

                  It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                  by Betty Pinson on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 09:06:13 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  This is ridiculous (9+ / 0-)

              While at first mildly humorous, the constant challenges to progressive activists about their voting record and partisan activism have grown tiresome.

              Yes we vote, we were voting and campaigning for Dems when most of our current critics were not yet born.

              Maybe I should just automatically post that in every meta diary as sort of a disclaimer.

              In addition, the last time I checked, the false and long discredited accusation that progressives & Obama critics cost Dems wins in 2010 is against the rules here at DKos.

              It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

              by Betty Pinson on Sun Mar 10, 2013 at 09:02:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Why do you (10+ / 0-)

      characterize lefty liberal sites or people that 'REALLY' want democratic, just, representative governance that works for the common good, as hating Obama? I hate the loss of our civil and human rights here in der Homeland, and I hate having to live in an economy that is owned and run by and for wealth creating  bankster's and the multinational corporation's obscene profits. I also really hate living in a police state where dissent met with paramilitary goon squads armed by the Feds and where I'm spied upon by creepy agency's looking to harvest my data. I do not hate Obama he's a pol, and as I'm told often enough here not a dictator. Hating a pol is as useless as loving a pol.

      'I'm taking my country back and the vehicle I'm using is the Democratic party' Howard Dean  

      I do not like having a Democratic administration and a Democratic party machine  with an anti-democratic agenda and a direction that is everything I have fought against all my life. I worked grassroots and here for the Democratic party for more then a decade. The Bushies galvanized a lot of people into becoming active politically. A former Green party member requited me in 2000 to become a member of my county Democratic party. She said that we all on the left needed to form a coalition to stop the right wing coup that was occurring. I agreed and put my boots on the ground. At this time however it looks like it was a by-partisan coup. This is not what democracy looks like.

      As for the left they have every reason to be angry with the Democrat's, they took the bait of bottom up audacious change they were waiting for, and got the switch. The switch that tells them that two legs are better and war is peace and austerity is the way forward.

      The silencing of the left is marginalizing  anyone who has the audacity to speak liberal truths as extreme and blaming them for losses they bring on themselves. Misinformation/propaganda is another way of silencing lefties. This administration has certainly managed to effectively neuter the liberal Democrat's in our government, they have no power and the D machine does not support them in the electoral process. Our choice is between Koch Bros/Bain vs Goldman Sachs/ Chase and even then we get a two for.

      The Law is King
      Where's my habeas corpus?

           

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