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View Diary: The Jewish Question questioned in the NYT (80 comments)

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  •  Probably because (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mokurai, terrybuck, Fishtroller01

    Those states have existed historically for hundreds of years or more whereas Israel has only been around since 1949 and displaced an existing population in the course of its creation.

    I'm increasingly pessimistic about any real long term solution because a bifurcated country isn't going to remain stable (ask Pakistan and Bangladesh) and Israel cannot absorb those Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza without the demographic realignment of their country resulting in a wholesale change to what Israel is.  Perhaps the best choice would be for Egypt and Jordan to annex the West Bank and Gaza respectively, but they would need serious economic assistance to do so and they don't really want the additional burden.

    •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kane in CA

      An actual suggestion of an alternative is rare in this debate. Yes, Egyptian and Jordanian complicity in the oppression of Palestinians is at the heart of the problem.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 08:52:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It would be a good solution but I doubt anyone (0+ / 0-)

      will agree to it.

    •  I'm sure the WB Palestinians (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anorish, Ray Blake

      would just LOVE to be annexed by an American toady regime that has had no difficulty conducting pogroms against them in the past.

      And let's not forget that even Mr. Muslim Brotherhood Himself of Egypt is still helping Israel maintain its blockade of Gaza.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 09:25:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thus the question whether the Arab Spring (0+ / 0-)

        can eventually do better in Egypt and elsewhere. Thus the question about Shari'a in an eventual Palestinian state.

        I made the comparison with Ireland, which has only recently implemented a somewhat modern divorce law over strenuous objections from the Catholic Church, and is now considering the possibility of sanity over abortions, after a woman from India was denied an abortion for her dying fetus, so its illness killed her, too.

        These things take quite a long time. Still, Catholics now have most civil rights throughout the UK, including Northern Ireland, centuries after Bloody Mary, Guy Fawkes, and Bonny Prince Charlie.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 09:43:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Really? (3+ / 0-)
      Those states have existed historically for hundreds of years or more
      This is true of a few of them- Egypt, Turkey, and Iran (Persia) for instance.  But Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria as independent states are all inventions of the 20th century (and all, with the partial exception of Lebanon, victims of the post-Sykes-Picot division of the Middle East).  None of those existed as states prior to 1900, an in some cases predate Israel by only a few years, with Jordan and Syria gaining full independence only in 1946.
    •  Plenty of states were created recently. India/ (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dankester, Hey338Too, JLan

      Pakistan split is the most obvious example of a state created on religious lines. The same goes for more recent states such as South Sudan and Kosovo. And more or less every state was created for a specific ethnicity. So I don't see how Israel is any different.

      •  Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim, Muslim.

        Numerous former Soviet Republics defined on ethnic and religious lines. But not Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, northern Nigeria, Chechnya, and others.

        Eventually we all have to learn to live with others and accord each other basic human rights. I recommend the delightful little book, You Can't Say You Can't Play, by Vivian Gussin Paley.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 09:51:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Most Soviet republics were split on ethnic lines. (0+ / 0-)

          In fact, I can't think about any that were created on religious lines. I agree with your larger point.

          •  The Soviet republics split on ethnic lines (0+ / 0-)

            are predominantly Muslim. Several of the independent successor states are quite explicitly Muslim. See also Chechnya.

            Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

            by Mokurai on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 12:42:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, in many cases ethnic and religious lines (0+ / 0-)

              overlapped. And Chechnya is a good example of an important role of religion. But there were no purely religious splits like the one in India/Pakistan.

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