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View Diary: As some states tighten gun controls, passage of most new federal gun laws looks increasingly iffy (103 comments)

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  •  colorado was big (11+ / 0-)

    because it's a state with a lot of gun owners, and yet there is strong support there for gun control, and the legislature responded. nationally, we need more pressure. we need to start making democrats and moderate republicans pay the political price for failing to pass what their own constituents support.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 11:17:32 AM PDT

    •  two measures were also defeated in CO (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annecros, noway2

      you can still conceal carry on college campuses, and sellers or manufacturers aren't liable for what's done with a gun they sold. Both measures withdrawn by their democratic sponsors.

      My impression was that no one much cared about the changes to background checks, it's not legal for private parties to sell at gun shows, all must go through background checks anyway.

      Also I believe conceal carry permits used to require actual training, I know they required live fire. I wasn't aware you could just watch a video. So that one isn't so onerous either.

      15 cartridges to a magazine would allow most semi auto handguns I'd guess. I'm not into handguns, so I don't know.

      No scary black gun ban, so people can spend ten dollars in amo before reloading, probably a good thing.

      All in all I'd say not so big.

      If there were rimfire back on the shelves I'd be happy.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 11:37:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's a big step in the right direction (6+ / 0-)

        we hadn't seen any in many years.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 11:39:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well this one would be pointless: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades
        and sellers or manufacturers aren't liable for what's done with a gun they sold. Both measures withdrawn by their democratic sponsors.
        I'm not sure why anyone would bother trying to enact legislation that would make gun manufacturers liable for what's done with a gun they sold, since the NRA succeeded in getting Congress to pass the so-called Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which would preempt most state suits against gun manufacturers based on what's done with guns they've sold.  I'm sure the sponsor of the measure was informed that NRA-backed federal legislation would preempt any state law on the issue, and upon learning that, the sponsor withdrew it.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 02:59:10 PM PDT

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        •  Fed'l preemption of state no-liability laws? All (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FogCityJohn

          ... the more reason to reverse the Federal law, to preserve States Rights!

          2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

          by TRPChicago on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 05:03:07 PM PDT

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          •  It's interesting. (0+ / 0-)

            Republicans are all in favor of states rights, and they supposedly hate when Congress limits a state's power to do things.  Of course, they change their tune when their gun nut friends want something done.  And so it was that we saw a Republican Congress and a Republican president act to preempt all state laws on products liability for misuse of weapons.

            But then, consistency has never been the Republicans' strong point, has it?

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 05:16:55 PM PDT

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      •  I don't know what it was in the past... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis, Glen The Plumber

        ...but Colorado law currently does not require "live fire."

        Which means that someone who qualifies for a concealed-carry permit in the state doesn't have to prove they have actually ever fired a gun of any kind.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 03:46:58 PM PDT

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        •  Actually, it's worse than that. Internet... (4+ / 0-)

          ...classes are acceptable.

          Here's a portion of a letter published in the Salida Citizen from Chaffee County Sheriff Pete Palmer to in response to a company that does Internet certification:

          I’ve been a member of the NRA for at least twenty years.  I’m no foe of the Second Amendment, but the NRA stresses responsible gun ownership and safe gun handling, and I’m fairly certain I’m on solid ground with that organization in this debate.

          As a side note, a little over a week ago I met one of the two applicants who submitted your certificate of “training” in support of his application for a concealed handgun permit.  He had agreed to demonstrate to me his proficiency with a handgun, so we met at the local shooting range.  He is a local businessman, personable and smart, desiring to carry a firearm for self-protection.  He produced a 1911-style Turkish-manufactured .45 auto about which, as he amply demonstrated, he knew very little: could not manipulate the slide safety, could not safely insert the magazine into and retract it from the well, could not recognize let alone clear a jam, did not know how to properly grip the pistol, did now know the low ready position, and at a range of fifteen feet was able to put only two of three rounds (slow fire, mind you, on the target).  I advised him to seek professional training with the weapon —and perhaps shop around for a different gun.

          I intend to comply with state law and may be compelled by that law, as it now is written, to issue these permits even to applicants who submit your certificates of training, totally inadequate in my view.  I‚ll ask the applicant to consider his personal liability in the event he one day has to use his firearm, is sued, and cannot show that he ever actually fired the weapon before receiving his concealed handgun permit.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 03:55:39 PM PDT

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    •  another thought... It has taken us years to get (6+ / 0-)

      effective control of both houses in CO, and the governorship. Now Republicans have something to run against. We have all kinds of issues that desperately need working on. We need to find a way to tax ourselves, our schools are hurting, we have a whole new health cars system to get up and running, environmental and growth issues.

      If we lost one of the sides of our legislature over this it wouldn't be so cool. The one major difference that was achieved is 30 round magazines are no longer legal, it must be 15. That would have absolutely no affect on the 3/4 of gun deaths in this state that are from one shot.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 11:47:04 AM PDT

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      •  we will see (9+ / 0-)

        given that these measures poll well in colorado, and that demographics keep moving our way every year, i don't expect a backlash.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 11:49:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Now they have something to run against (7+ / 0-)

        never mind that, before any gun control measures were passed, Republicans ran against the future possibility, the threat of having something to run against. Damned either way. It's an argument for more progressive legislation.

        We demanded a plan to reduce gun violence. Now it's time to demand a vote.

        by tytalus on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 11:52:00 AM PDT

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      •  Since the Republicans would run on it anyway . . . (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        remembrance, ban nock

        I really don't see that we lose anything.  Republicans are liars.  They ran on the entirely false claim that Obama cut billions of dollars from Medicare.  No matter what Democrats do, Republicans will accuse us of wanting to take away people's guns.  The Republicans are utterly uninterested in the truth or falsity of their claims.

        The NRA and others on the right are currently accusing Obama of being a "gun grabber."  The claim is false, but that hasn't stopped anyone from making it.  (Nor, I might add, has it stopped certain users of this site from believing it.)  

        Given that reality, there's no point to avoiding trying to enact sensible gun control.  The polling on lots of these measures is extremely favorable.  And irrespective of the content of any particular measure, Republicans will claim it's the first (or second, or third, or fiftieth) step on the road to "confiscation."  In other words, they're going to lie anyway, so let's do what's right.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 at 03:07:34 PM PDT

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      •  I'd consider affecting 1/4 of gun deaths (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FogCityJohn

        a good start

    •  As of right now, 4pm Mountain Time, still voting (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gof, Meteor Blades, Laurence Lewis

      Final Senate votes today, here is a good scorecard..

      Note that two of the bills are Senate bills, so they need to move to the Colorado House for approval before going to the Governor to sign. The three House Bills would move to the Governor after being passed by the Senate.

      So I would say, two down, 1 more to pass today, 2 to go to the house. Life is always complex :-).

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