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  •  china is a mixed bag (35+ / 0-)

    lots of green tech, lots of dirty tech. but it has a valid point when it says that the west built its economies by disproportionately emitting greenhouse gasses, and the developing economies should be compensated for not doing the same. but even more importantly, the u.s. must first take care of its own house, before lecturing others. and each of us, as individuals, must do what we can.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 09:39:36 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  You just made the point I was going to make (35+ / 0-)

      Why wait for China or any other country to show it's cards. It's time we went to work here. Now. It is infuriating to me that we are dragging our feet.

      Just west of me is an entire valley of nothing, bordered on the north and south by military installations and the salt flats. It's BLM land used only by small amounts of grazing cattle, jack rabbits and deer. It's a perfect place for wind and solar, and done right it wouldn't harm the existing critters and tumbleweeds.

      Recently a two year project of building high voltage lines bringing electricity to SLC from a coal fired plant 100 miles south through my valley was completed. There is no excuse for not doing the same with renewable energy.

      That's just my tiny corner of the world, I'm not even talking about the geothermal energy that runs through the middle of our state. argh!! Europe isn't waiting for us or China, they are on it like white on rice. Why should we wait another day?

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 09:56:22 AM PDT

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    •  US didn't have 1.3 Billion people in 1930 (10+ / 0-)

      And more importantly, in 1930 coal and oil is all we had. So when we started building a modern industrial economy, we used what we had.

      Now we have nuclear, wind, solar, etc.  We don't need fossil fuels anymore, and neither do they.  The reason we share knowledge is so that the next generation doesn't have to waste time making the same mistakes.

      But it is a total fabrication for China to say that since 120 million Americans used coal in 1930, that 1.3 billion Chinese can use coal in 2013.  Nope.

    •  The solution is to reduce consumption and to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cliss, Laurence Lewis

      start producing things with extreme efficiency and zero externalities.

      If that happens then China's current path changes with it.

      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

      by k9disc on Tue Mar 12, 2013 at 10:26:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed, the quickest way to start (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        liz, k9disc

        making a positive change is to cut back on consumption.  Every time you go to the store, make the decision: Do I really need this?  Will it hurt me if I DON'T buy this?  Cut out all frivolous consumption.  Stick with the basics.  

        I went grocery shopping yesterday.  I made a trip to Winco.  Bought almost everything from their Bulk Bins.  This is the cheapest way to go.  Next, I went to Trader Joe's to find my organic groceries which you really can't find at Winco.

        I spent about $50.00, mostly grains & pasta from the bulk bins.  This will feed my family for the better part of the month.  And believe me we will be eating like kings.  Home made minestrone soup, with homemade cheese bread, fresh salad yum.  I teach classes on this stuff I shold know.

        Once I got home,  all the Winco items went into glass jars (recycled!), little tupperware containers (from the thrift store!).  Everything is safely stacked in the food cupboard, safe from marauding ants.  I try to buy as much as possible from a minimum of packaging, like plastic, paper, etc.  Our garbage bag is about 1 small plastic bag per week.  (recycled from Winco).

    •  Why do we (11+ / 0-)

      ship coal and soon tar sand to China to refine? Mother nature doesn't give a rats ass which region, country or economy is burning the planet up.  Global market economics being sold as a sustainable market based solution to climate change/global warming is just madness. The atmosphere is global and just because the US is not burning the dirty grease were exporting to China means nothing in terms of the looming crisis the whole world faces.    

      The state department's latest report regarding  Keystone's effect on the environment is a great example of this insanity.

      Keystone XL Pipeline Does Little Environmental Harm, US Finds

      The Obama administration today moved one step closer to approval of the Keystone XL pipeline, concluding in a draft environmental impact statement that the project would not accelerate global greenhouse gas emissions or significantly harm the natural habitats along its route......

      “The approval or denial of any one crude oil transport project, including this proposed project, really remains unlikely to significantly impact the rate of development of the oil sands or the continued demand for heavy crude oil in the U.S.,” said Kerri-Ann Jones, the Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs.

      Government analysts found that Keystone XL would each year produce the equivalent carbon dioxide emissions of 620,000 passenger cars operating for a year. But they concluded that whether or not the pipeline is approved, those emissions would still  likely occur because of fuels produced and obtained from other sources.

      10,000 jobs the grease lobbyists and Canadian officials cry. Jobs are important but dirty energy jobs do not trump having a planet that sustains life. Jobs would be generated by sustainable clean energy industry from engineers designers to manufacturing and constructing a grid.

      When you listen to the rationales for killing the planet from our pols and the oil and gas industry it's a mind bending exercise in double think. What utter bs. our 'global economy,' which is in itself a disaster to most people, puts the profitability of the 'free' market before the planets survival. Talk about looming apocalyptic cliffs. This is literally disaster capitalism.  

      US review gives boost to Keystone pipeline
      upstream - the international oil and gas newspaper

      "We're hearing the same rehashed arguments from the State Department about why a great threat to the climate is not a threat at all," said Bill McKibben, the founder of, an environmental group.

      "Mother Nature filed her comments last year - the hottest year in American history; the top climate scientists in the U.S. have already chimed in. The rest of us have 45 days to make our voices heard, and we will," said McKibben, who has led protests at the White House.

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