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  •  I recognize the difficulties we face. (24+ / 0-)

    But we have to take a stand against these guys, I guess is the way I see it, for whatever it ends up being worth. However overwhelmed, we should still resist, speak out and in every other way we can find, refuse to cooperate with evil. Just as a matter of style if nothing else.

    As for stopping the madness, what you can't stop, you can sometimes dodge or finesse. You find ways to get where you're going. Maybe with a bit of jiu jitsu.

    My final point though was that you speak up against evil even if that's all you can do.

    •  Of course, we speak out. But reality is reality. (12+ / 0-)

      Maybe it's a bit of the old reverse psychology, i.e., we can't stop this shit because the lemmings won't fucking wake up, while hoping the fucking lemmings wake up.

      "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 08:09:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  More and more I'm thinking that form (15+ / 0-)

      of resistance requires communities and economies that exist separate from and parallel to the mainstream culture/society, that reject the offerings by refusing to participate in them, that can grow and develop to the point that they are accessible to all and provide a clear path to and home for a different way.

      One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

      by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 08:23:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. I remember that one. (2+ / 0-)

          I mentioned my plans for the affordable, sustainable housing diary in the comment thread of that of yours.

          Your son sounds like a remarkable young man.

          One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

          by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 05:40:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This was one of the things (8+ / 0-)

        that some in the Occupy movement had in mind as a way to rebuild society into a real humane society in which we care for one another.

        "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

        by gulfgal98 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 08:35:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, and it was good effort that (8+ / 0-)

          bears repeating.

          There are some great, large tracts of land reasonably priced about an hour north of D.C. I'd like to see people build such communities up there. I'd be willing to participate in every way. The proximity to the Halls of Criminality are convenient for busing people down for rallies. Even the permanent rally, when it comes. That's why those communities will need large tents that can be erected in fields, for everyone who travels in from afar to participate. And lots of bicycles, so as many as possible can bike down into the city. Of course then we'll need a bike lot, where the bikes can be parked and locked up. And, and, and...

          I can see it all in my mind's eye, and it's beautiful.

          One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

          by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 08:47:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Is there a forum (4+ / 0-)

            where the possibility of purchasing land and establishing such a community is being discussed?  I like the idea a great deal.  Maybe we could assemble a steering committee to investigate the possibility.  How far north of DC?  Howard or Carroll county?  

            •  Let me dig up the links. (3+ / 0-)

              Will post back here momentarily.

              One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

              by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 09:58:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'll be back later (4+ / 0-)

                to look for it, WIA.  Thanks.

                •  Here's a few. (3+ / 0-)

                  Washington County
                  Though Carroll and Frederick have opps, too.

                  no idea where the bold & italics came from and I didn't want to investigate. :)

                  Big Pool, 20 ac, $89.9K
                  JUST REDUCED ! 2 parcels on 20.67 acres - Tax IDs: 2215000406 & 2215002077. One parcel is an island with Licking Creek on both sides and other a lot which serves as access to island.Creek is stocked with trout yrly. Location provides recreation (hiking/biking/rafting/canoeing/Kayak/tubing) fishing, hunting and farming. Close to C&O Canal; Western Md Rail Trail; Potomac River, & Ft Frederick.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Gapland, 15+ ac, $99.9K
                  Back on Market * Incredible Opportunity * Perced, Secluded & Beautiful Completely Wooded 15.29 acre lot * Lots of hardwoods - chestnuts are marked * Perced (marked)& Newer Stake Survey * New Entrance * Driveway easement - Left of 3150 Kaetzel Rd. * Steep entrance into woods but worth it
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Big Pool, 13 ac, $125K
                  13 acre building lot perced and ready to go. this parcel offers a private setting just off RT 40 just west of Hagerstown Md in Big Pool Clear Spring Md area and within minutes of I-70 and 15 to 20 minutes from Hagerstown Md. Mostly wooded. Perfect home site. With an adjoining 11.85 acre parcel that is listed at 100K Make an offer on the combined properties that would offer almost 25 acres
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Big Pool, 23+ ac, $149.9K
                  Ideal home site! Close to I-70, Recreation, horses, fishing,& hunting. Mostly level & about 60% cleared lot that backs up to Licking Creek on the west boundary & 750' +- road frontage on Rt 40. Also, 13.6 acres in CREP program which generates $1700 inc per yr can be cont'd. or canceled. See Plat on View Docs! Tract 3-B (23.38 Acres) is the only parcel for sale of 3 under tax# 2215002034.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Knoxville, 21 ac, $149.9K
                  21 wooded acres off Harpers Ferry Rd. Less than a mile to C & O Canal and Potomac River, Backs to State parkland . One acre had been cleared for homesite, already perked, steam. About 15 minutes to MARC Train..
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Smithsburg, ~18 ac, $168+K
                  Beautiful level lot! Enjoy the stream running through this lot along with woods and plenty of cleared land to build the home of your dreams. Well pumping rate is 12 gal per min, perked for 4 brdrooms
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Sharpsburg, 24 ac, $180K
                  Fabulous garden site along the stream.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Boonsboro, 35 ac, $179.5K

                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Louisa County, VA (near Charlottesville), 25 ac, $180K
                  25 acres!! Great investment property on beautiful Bibb Store Road in Louisa. Plat not recorded, soil work is completed and 8 lots have been surveyed!! All of this is ready to be recorded! Road is not in..
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Big Pool, 18+ w/1300sft home, $195K
                  Attention nature lovers! 18.34 acres very secluded and heavily wooded. Beautiful home with large living room, 2 baths and 2 bedrooms. Perfect for a weekend get away or summer retreat. Short drive to Whitetail. Covered parking. Fireplace in family room. All appliances stay. Beautiful wooded area, must see!
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Keedysville, 24+ and building, 199K
                  Subdividable lot with a 24x32 insulated metal building, 200 amp electric & 2 roll up doors * Most survey work already done to subdivide. One lot for you, one for the kids or sell of a lot after subdivision is complete. 2 percs already done. Super commuter location. Inside building available to see by appt only
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Sharpsburg, 19 ac, $199.9K
                  Come build your dream home on this stunning lot with no deeded covenants. Property is 1.5 mi from C&O Canal National Park, 0.7 mi to Taylor's Landing boat ramp, a free public boat ramp for the Potomac River. Serene location that is only 7 mi from Antietam Battlefield Park & only 17 mi to Shepherdstown, WV-a stop for the MARC train which connects to Washington, DC. Property is perced! Call Today!
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Big Pool, 23 ac, $199.9K
                  Nearly 23 Acres Offers Peace, Quiet & Privacy,Great For Horses, Cattle And/Or Crops! Electric On Site. Approved Perc. Place Home On The Hilltop & Enjoy The Views, Serenity Of Country Living & Abundant Wildlife. Yr Round Stream Frontage On Lanes Run. Minutes To I-70, Whitetail Ski Resort, State Parks & Game Lands, Hunt, Fish & Enjoy The Outdoors Without Leaving Home!!! Possible Subdivision...
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Fairplay, 32 ac, 259.9K
                  32.12 secluded acres perfect for building your dream home. Listing includes lots 1 & 6.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Boonsboro, 16+ ac, $265K
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Hagerstown, 24 + old stone barn & dwelling, 1850; $275K
                  23.93 acres of farm land situated along South side of Cool Hollow Rd. Stone barn present along with old dwelling built approx 1850. Could be tear-down or restore, some exposed log walls. Existing well on property. Plat available upon request.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Rohrersville, MD, $275.9K
                  Build your dream home,bring horses and make your hay on site.Property has year round stream, large barn for storage,animals. Lot size is 18.79 acres. Has well yielding 35 gallons per minute.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Clear Spring, 33.5 ac, $297.5K
                  Fantastic Gentle Graded Lot located along the National Pike near Clear Spring Country Diner. 33+
                  - acres ZonedC; Conservation Dist/Rural. Possible Sub-Division - currently not Sub-Divided. Buyer to pay ALL permits, Impact fees, APFO, School Fees, Ag Tax. Community Well now shard by others. Owner will consider ALL reasonable offers on this nice property.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Hancock, 77 ac, $299K
                  REDUCED Weekend in the Wilderness. Love to hunt, ride 4 wheelers or ride a horse then come see this property. Enjoy the rustic life on your combined (3Parcel) 92.33 acres with cabin with 2 bedrooms & bath. Close to White Tail Ski Resort, Little & Big Pool (fishing), C&O Canal & Rails, 5 min to PA. MOTIVATED SELLER
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Clear Spring, 101 ac, $299K
                  101 +- acres . Abundant wildlife.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Keedysville, 30 ac + house, $350K
                  CRS LISTING! HUGE Price Drop - Seller Says "SELL!" ATTENTION History Buffs! Enjoy 30+ Acres while updating a home built in 1830. Terrific Potential for Boarding and Training. *AS IS
                  Equestrian Facility and Farm Land with Rolling Hills and Pastoral Views Just Waiting for Your TLC. Historic 1830 Brick Home with Large Horse Barn with Box Stalls and Run In Stalls. Stream through Pasture Field.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Hagerstown, 28+ w/house, $359.9K
                  Large 3 bedroom farm house with approximately 28 acres surrounded on three sides by creek, some TLC needed. Property has a 40 x 49 bank barn, large storage building, second septic system on site and fenced pastures. Private setting ideal for horses or farming. ...Property generates $400 per month from right away for cell tower , fields can also be leased to local farmer for additional income.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Williamsport, 60+ ac, $399K
                  60.49 acres off Dam 4 Rd with the possibility of 12 to 13 building sites,possibility no ag tax due; perked and ready to build; well and septic to be installed by buyer; great rural location near Potomac River and C&O Canal.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Louisa County?? (near Charlottesville), VA, 62 ac, $399K [no pic]
                  Over 100 acres available for sale and owner is willing to finance.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Hancock, 60 ac, $480k, barn, house, mobile home
                  On Heavenly Acres Ridge, I shit you not. :)
                  Farm with 59.90 acres, 40 x 50 2 story barn, 3 bedroom house and 2 bedroom Mobil home. Rental income is $1200.00 per month.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Clear Spring, 97 ac, $599K
                  97+
                  - acres of trails, pasture, woods, Potomac River views, access to C&O Canal, Potomac River, and abundance of wildlife.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Stafford , VA (near Falmouth), 80 ac, $650K
                  First Time Offering on this Parcel of Land Consisting Of Appx. 96 ACRES (less appx. 15 Acres and Brick Home) Long Road Frontage and SOIL MAP & REPORT recently done by Danny Hatch.. yield 20-25+ conventional sites. Gently rolling topo and adjacent to Izac Walton Land Preserve. Zoned for 3+ Acre Home Sites..rollback taxes paid by purchaser
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  Knoxville, 55 ac, $650K
                  A nice wooded mountain lot just minutes from Harper's Ferry the C&O canel, the Potomac River, and the Marc Trains. Perfect for the person who loves nature, wildlife, or hunting. Have papers from Washington County Health Department for satisfactory perk test.
                  http://www.realtor.com/...

                  AND MORE.

                  I've been working up to a diary on this next part, but here's a couple of useful sources:
                  Fellowship of Intentional Communities (eco-villages, co-ops, co-housing, communes, etc., with a directory...)

                  Earthaven - seems like some pretty together who have worked out a lot of the details on their 120 ac site outside of Asheville, NC.

                  One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

                  by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 11:39:17 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Personally, (2+ / 0-)

                    I would like to see at least 50, preferably a 100 acres or more, as with Earthaven, which I mentioned above. Look at the FAQs in that, btw. Very interesting model.

                    I grew up in a family with 60 ac in the middle of a state forest, with a 5 acre pond. The pond was a good size, there was plenty of space around it to spread out and yet it was very walkable.

                    But, all depends on whose involved and what kind of resources are available. It would be great if most or all of the mortgage were paid off... Will need to develop the land as well. Would also be good to have room for onsite small businesses, like Earthaven...

                    One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

                    by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 11:44:07 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hey OPOL (2+ / 0-)

                      I don't know if you caught them, but I had a couple of diaries yesterday that relate to this train of thought, at least in my mind:

                      Affordable, Sustainable Housing I: As Direct Action

                      Affordable, Sustainable Housing II: Materials & Methods

                      And here's a somewhat more detailed description of what I've been thinking about:

                      I would love to participate in a larger, more organized form of Occupy development around D.C. In this model, an ever-growing network of semi-collectivist communities would be created in pockets around D.C. The purpose of these collectives would be many-fold.

                      First, they would be a form of direct action in as much as they would comprise increasingly self-sufficient communities that run parallel to and increasingly off-the-grid from the mainstream, corporate, consumer culture.

                      Second, they would be the incubators of solutions for the replacement of mainstream, corporate, consumer culture over the long-term.

                      Third, they would incorporate community-based solutions to Climate Change within their missions and operations.

                      And fourth, they would provide a capacity for applying pressure on traditional government, by experimenting with and developing effective methods of- consensus-building, decision-making and governance.

                      - participatory economy (as both direct action and solution)
                      - creating, maintaining and powering affordable, sustainable housing.
                      - creating, maintaining and powering shelters for large numbers of visitors.
                      - developing food production capacity for the communities and visitors.
                      - practicing a wide range of permaculture methods
                      - hosting large numbers of visitors for training exchanges, networking and engaging in rallies in D.C.
                      - creating a capacity for transporting visitors to rallies in D.C. in a carbon-sensitive way.
                      - developing a first class organization to create, promote and operate rallies.
                      - providing rally management and support services to groups with aligned interests.
                      - preparing for a daily, large-scale, indefinite occupation of D.C., based out of these outlying communities.

                      One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

                      by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 12:38:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Earthaven is lovely. (2+ / 0-)

                    Says they paid $588K for their 329 acres almost 20 years ago by using the credit of the founding members.  I wonder if there's sufficient interest here in investing in such a project?

                    Here's a map of Maryland and surrounds.  Where to locate would depend on whether you'd want a daily commuter location or a general base, I think.  Acreage is much less expensive in Washington and Frederick counties than in counties closer to DC, but the commute to DC is horrific.  It's commonplace to see DC commuters on 270 at 5 am.  It's 184 miles from Cumberland to DC on the C&O bike trails; would be impractical to bike. I wonder if the approach would be better from Virginia, such as from Louisa county?  The Shenandoah Valley is beautiful and fertile.

                    •  Yeah, that traffic thing. (2+ / 0-)

                      I left Philly in '98 for Salt Lake County. At the time, my commute was about 45 minutes. But once or twice a week it would 2-3X that. Didn't even matter if it was rush hour or not.

                      Here, I don't think I've ever been delayed more than 15 minutes. And the natives howl over the "traffic". Ha!

                      Yeah, I don't know which direction is best for those who would be commuting to D.C., if we wanted to leave that as an option. Possible north between DC and Baltimore. You may have noticed, a few of those properties were down Charlottesville way (I don't know why, they just showed up in the list). That's nother direction.

                      We should look into setting up a Google circle where we can talk in a forum and store documents, etc.

                      One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

                      by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 05:29:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Between DC and Baltimore (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Words In Action

                        you have Howard and Montgomery counties, two of the wealthiest counties in the entire nation - #5 and #10, respectively - and the property taxes and prices and general cost of living reflect that fact.  The entire metro area is a series of "bedroom communities" for the DC workforce, so traffic is nightmarish throughout.  Basically, it's a trade-off:  Pricey with proximity vs. more affordable with longer commute to DC.  The commute can be dealt with by busing around rush hour, plus the more bucolic areas are the outlying ones.  That Charlottesville listing that mentioned owner financing caught my eye.  That's always a bonus.

                    •  As for support for the idea. (3+ / 0-)

                      That's a question mark.

                      It's worth developing the idea, doing the homework, then maybe even putting it out there as a concept piece on a website to which we can point kossacks and other fellow travelers. See what happens.

                      The housing part I'm kind of doing anyway, along with the intentional communities, because a lot of the activity on the housing is happening in those communities. I've got a diary coming on that.

                      What do you think?

                      Have you set up Google groups before? I've participated a bit, never set one up. Sure it isn't difficult, but I probably couldn't get to it until the weekend, at the earliest.

                      One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

                      by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 05:49:09 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Ack! (2+ / 0-)

                        I am so non-techie it's pathetic, but let me play around with Google groups and see what I can manage.  I'll come back to this comment tomorrow evening and let you know how it goes.  I want to read more about how they've structured Earthaven legally and financially, as well.  They have portions of their dox up on their site.  I'm really enamored with whole idea and I don't suppose we'll know how well received it would be until we try.  I'm for trying.  :-)
                        A pleasant evening to you!

                        •  Hello WIA (0+ / 0-)

                          So, I had an exceptionally crappy day and did not accomplish what I'd hoped to do here.  I did fool around with Google groups last night briefly and it appears that one needs a gmail account, which I don't have, in order to set up a group.  Sound about right?  

      •  As Whole Earth Catalog founder Stewart Brand said, (8+ / 0-)
        "The thing we found out in the '60s is that you can change the game by turning your back on it and going away and starting a new game, and if that is a more interesting game, then people come over to play it. Evolutionary tactics seem to apply. The more diversity, the healthier everybody is. Rather than getting caught on one dinosaurlike path, you have a labyrinth of things going on constantly.

        "You cannot change a game by winning it, you cannot change a game by losing it, you cannot even change it by refereeing it. . . ."

        http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...

        Daily Kos community 2004 and 2005 (when I became aware of it / began participating) = going away and starting a new game

        Daily Kos community 2013 = still a more interesting new game?

        It seems like there are some persistent influences and voices at work here that would like Daily Kos to increasingly fall in line as just one more part of the old U.S. party politics game.

        The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

        by lotlizard on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 08:59:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  DKos 2013 (4+ / 0-)

          Interesting question. I kinda think we need an additional space of some sort we where can brew and partake of non-electoral fare, something that whets our appetites and gives us strength for Change in whole numbers.

          One of the major differences between Democrats and Republicans is that the former have the moral imagination to see the moral dimension of financial affairs, while the latter do not. Some pragmatists are exceptions.

          by Words In Action on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 09:29:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The founding fathers (2+ / 0-)

        knew the importance of an independent press.

        Some people have short memories

        by lenzy1000 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 09:34:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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