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View Diary: Questions About the Latest Big Movement on Daily Kos (89 comments)

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  •  You may not want to be the leader (5+ / 0-)

    but you certainly strike me as someone who wants to tell others what to do.

    There are many ways you could have obtained the information you claim is vital to you. Based on his answer, it sounds like you could have gleaned most of it simply by reading his diaries. You also could have simply messaged him and see if he replied. You also could have posted a comment in one of his diaries and asked him.

    (And yes i know you "messaged" him to make sure he saw your call-out diary, and that's not what I meant by message him.)

    Instead, you did call-out diary. Why is that? Maybe it was because despite your claims, you needed the attention. It definitely reeked of a smack-down and a character assassination.

    So I tend not to believe your claimed motives that you simply wanted more information. Especially because that information was likely readily available to you by any of the means listed above.

    You're much more transparent than you think you are.

    You didn't deny the concern-trolling charge, so I assume you agree with it. It's pretty obvious that your diary was an attempted take-down, veiled in a faux-I-want-to-help guise. The very definition of concern-trolling

    Don't trust anyone over 84414 ;-)

    by BentLiberal on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 05:10:18 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What more do you want me to explain? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doc2, Paul1a

      I have already said that I disagree with the idea of a revolutionary mass movement led by an anonymous individual, and that I disagree with putting the focus on protests rather than electoral politics.

      And I have to say, I find it absolutely mind-boggling that anyone would say that a person who speaks of starting a revolution should never have to face any public questions about their identity, their organizational structure, and why they believe their specific methods are the right ones.

      I would expect exactly the same things to be asked of me if I were doing what Ray is doing, and I would not consider such questions or criticisms to be inappropriate at all. It comes with the territory of leadership.

      The most serious problem in American politics today is that people with wrong ideas are uncompromising, and people with good ideas are submissive and unwilling to fight. Change that, and we might have a real democracy again.

      by Eric Stetson on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 05:17:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  All good revolutionaries have toadies. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Paul1a

        So Pensador may be heading places.

      •  Thank you, Eric. Reality can be harsh. (0+ / 0-)

        I very much doubt that RayPensador.com's "movement" will go anywhere. My only concern is that it siphons time and talent away from electing better and more Democrats. In the worst case (which I don't expect) it would exacerbate factionalism within the Democratic Party -- at a time when we should be taking advantage of the split in the GOP created by their Tea Party. Most of us at DailyKos agree on the challenges identified (among many others!) -- our campaign-finance system, special interests, the role of money in politics, a media oligopoly owned by Republicans, etc. The vast majority of us will not sign up for "Ray's Revolution" -- and there are good reasons for our gut instinct.

        Noun: nutcake  'nút,keyk
        1.    [US] A person who is regarded as eccentric or mad
        - nutter [Brit], wacko, whacko, nutjob, wackjob [N. Amer], mentalist [Brit], nutbar [N. Amer], basket case, whackjob [N. Amer]

        2.    Cake made with nuts
        Wait, wait, don't tell me: "What's really crazy is doing nothing..." hehe

        Old-Fashioned Nut Cake (adapted from here)
        Servings: 4-6
        Prep Time: 10 minutes   Cook Time: varies  
        Ingredients
        1/2 cup butter, softened
        1 cup sugar
        3 eggs
        1 teaspoon vanilla
        3/4 cup milk
        2 cups all-purpose flour
        2 teaspoons baking powder
        spices to taste, e.g. 1 t cinnamon, 1 t nutmeg, 1 t ginger (or grate some fresh), and 1/4 t ground cloves.
        1 cup chopped nuts (walnut, hazelnut, filbert, beech, etc.)

        Cream the butter and sugar (mix together until smooth); stir in eggs and vanilla and mix well. Using a sturdy spoon (or an electric mixer), alternately mix in the milk with the flour and baking powder. Mix in spices. Stir in the nuts. Transfer to a greased pan (or pans) and bake at 350-degrees. Baking time varies according to pan size and what you add, so watch carefully for golden brown crust and use a toothpick to test if done.

        •  "My only concern..." (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul1a
          My only concern is that it siphons time and talent away from electing better and more Democrats.
          Same here, pretty much.

          As for whether Ray is nuts, I don't know, but I tend to have a soft spot in my heart for people who are a little bit crazy. I, myself, tend toward the nutty side at times. Thing is, though, anyone who tries to start something big needs a reality check now and then from an external observer, to raise questions about whether they're doing things the right way. That was pretty much the purpose of my diary, and I guess I accomplished what I set out to do, at least in terms of raising the issues about Ray's movement that struck me as particularly problematic.

          The most serious problem in American politics today is that people with wrong ideas are uncompromising, and people with good ideas are submissive and unwilling to fight. Change that, and we might have a real democracy again.

          by Eric Stetson on Wed Mar 13, 2013 at 09:28:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I was going to write a final reply to Eric, but I (0+ / 0-)

      guess I don't have to anymore...  Thank you.

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