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View Diary: David Pogue of the NYTimes Mansplains it to the Stupid Secretary (417 comments)

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  •  You have a point (8+ / 0-)

    in that the diarist was somewhat hyperbolic, however her criticism is valid. If you really do write books in Word then you should have an appreciation for keyboard centric productivity features and for how truly disruptive and regressive the elimination, relocation, or complication of such features are to the professional user.

    Failing that, your assertions come off dubious at best.

    "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

    by Phil In Denver on Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 01:25:36 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I just looked up the Microsoft (5+ / 0-)

      guidance on keyboard and menu shortcuts for Word in Office 2013.

      Have a  look:

      http://office.microsoft.com/...

      Literally hundreds of shortcuts for nearly any arcane function you can think of.  Hundreds.

      What is on display here is really computer illiteracy.  Since 5 or more years ago you could write macros to do almost anything from a given keystroke anyway, in any modern OS.

      I actually dislike MS and find Office very bloated for what I need. and have used some of the alternative and open source options.  But in my universe, Office is still the standard.

      I also dispute that taking your eyes off the screen would then take a trained word processor user "15-30" seconds to find her place on screen again.  Say what?  You have a flashing cursor.  I am experimenting right now with looking away, clicking my mouse, and looking back up.  At most it is a 2 second delay to reposition my gaze where my cursor is, and that is in dKos' crappy comment interface.

      This thread is ridiculous.  I don't know why it's about MS Office, when the point of the thread was to unfairly accuse a pubic figure of being a sexist to the OP.  There is zero evidence for that in anything she posted as dozens have now pointed out to her, only to get snarky responses akin to her original rant to Pogue, accusing anyone who is not her of not needing a word processor to do "real work."

      She wrote a rude rant to a journalist who could have ignored her, but who wrote back a pleasant and brief "sorry you feel that way" response only to have his private response published on dKos as the target of an overt smear for its supposed "sexism," while the OP seeks immunity for the sneering, derisive, dismissive, hectoring tone of her initial message to Pogue.  

      Up is down.  Black is white.  

      MS Office is software.  You can buy it or use something else.  I am sure MS would be happy to hear your comments.  I am sure Pogue was happy to know someone read his review.  He doesn't owe the OP a review from her perspective in the New York Times.  There are literally hundreds of articles about the new MS Office release (and yes, you'll have to learn to work in the cloud now too, horrible thought that you'd have to learn something new) out there.  I am sure many speak to very specialized niche case uses.  I have no particular love for Microsoft or for Pogue, but I find spurious, nonsensical accusations of sexism for no good reason to be problematic.

      There is so much sexism in the tech world.  It is everywhere.  But this isn't an example of it.  So the whole diary is absurd.

      •  I have to address this (8+ / 0-)
        I also dispute that taking your eyes off the screen would then take a trained word processor user "15-30" seconds to find her place on screen again.  Say what?  You have a flashing cursor.  I am experimenting right now with looking away, clicking my mouse, and looking back up.  At most it is a 2 second delay to reposition my gaze where my cursor is, and that is in dKos' crappy comment interface.
        I also do legal word processing.  Depending on the document and the extent of the handwritten revisions (and how sloppily they may have been written -- lawyers are great at making a clean page look like a Ralph Steadman nightmare), it may take a while to find your place again if you look away from it, even to look at the screen for a second.

        And don't get me started on real estate legal descriptions -- those things are damned near impossible to follow, no matter how neatly they're laid out.

        Believe me, I wish it was as simple as a Kos comment interface!  

        (And I haven't seen a flashing cursor in years.  That's just been the setup at the firms where I've worked, though -- I've never cared enough to think about whether I could change it.)

        •  You are mistaken (0+ / 0-)

          Your cursor blinks at the insertion point in MS word now just like a decade ago.  Look.

          •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

            just like it does in the comment interface her.

            I've written two books and dozens of academic papers and articles in Word over the past 20 years.  You don't know more about word processing than I do no matter what your job is. Sorry.

            •  Rocket, what's your problem? (9+ / 0-)

              So I haven't paid attention to whether the cursor blinks.  I probably got that impression because if I'm looking at the screen, I'm typing.  And the cursor doesn't blink when I'm typing.  But good for you -- you were right about the cursor.  

              This is why I tried to point out -- nicely -- that legal word processing is a completely different job, with its own set of issues.  You're not going to know more about it than I do, no matter what you've written.  Sorry.  

              •  Actually (8+ / 0-)

                The "15-30 seconds" she talks about has nothing to do with finding your place on a screen.  Of course it's going to be easy to find your place if you're wondering where your cursor is, regardless of whether it blinks, stays steady, bursts into song or explodes.  

                She, and I, are talking about following the hard copy of the document the legal word processor is working from, and keeping track of which revisions have been made and which haven't -- often from a document with handwriting, arrows, lines, symbols and random markings that make the thing look like it's covered with ants.  

              •  The guy just joined DK, recs nobody and nothing (4+ / 0-)

                and more than a quarter of his comments are total defense of Microsoft.

                Think there might be some background there? Agenda, maybe?

                Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

                by Clem Yeobright on Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 07:04:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I was thinking along those lines. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Clem Yeobright, Tonedevil

                  Either that, or a Menz Rights follower.

                  No proof of course, so no actual accusation. Just a highly similar  MO that made me laugh.

                  Just gonna ignore the rants. I looked at the comment history. Nuff said.

                  "As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?" - Holly, Red Dwarf

                  by pale cold on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 08:57:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  LOL (0+ / 0-)

                    You guys can really only argue by smear and innuendo.

                    For the record, I have no connection to Microsoft or any other tech company; I hold a PhD and am a tenured college professor in the sciences; I have been programming computers since before some of y'all were likely born; and I consider myself an ardent feminist who finds it repulsive when "sexism" accusations are used as smears and calumnies.

                    Mob justice requires a vigorous reply.

                    “I wore black because ... it's still my symbol of rebellion -- against a stagnant status quo, against our hypocritical houses of God, against people whose minds are closed to others' ideas.” -- Johnny Cash

                    by RocketJSquirrel on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 11:32:06 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You are VERY (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Clem Yeobright, Tonedevil, PJEvans

                      impressed with yo`self.

                      Just not too many other people are.

                      Condescending git is another term that goes thru my mind. :)

                      Have a great day enjoying yer own magnificence. Someone has to eh?

                      BTW, Frankenoid is a highly respected member of this community. You, are not. And not likely to ever be.

                      "As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?" - Holly, Red Dwarf

                      by pale cold on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 12:22:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Do you know Dr. Science? He also has a degree (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Tonedevil, pale cold

                      in science!

                      Funny that nobody guessed from your posts here that you have any degree at all, much less a Ph.D.

                      You should stop hiding your light under a bushel, dude! LOL

                      Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

                      by Clem Yeobright on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 01:29:54 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm afraid that's just pure nonsense (5+ / 0-)

        The cursor is a tiny vertical line which is easily lost in a large body of text, particularly in the case of a legal document which can use legal sized pages.

        If you are "experimenting" with relocating the cursor after looking away it's also highly likely that subconsciously you are making a mental note of the location of the cursor, which makes relocating it rather easier. In other words you are focusing on the task.

        But a legal secretary who has to stop for a 3 minute phone call or a quick conversation with a lawyer will likely not locate her position quite so readily. That is just common sense.

        "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

        by Phil In Denver on Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 06:40:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll even go you one better (3+ / 0-)

          In addition to having been a legal secretary, I did straight legal word processing for 10 years.  No phones ringing off the hook, no lawyers interrupting me, none of the distractions Frankenoid probably deals with all the time (and that I deal with now in my new job).  Just "Here's the document, create a new version, make the revisions," or "My document keeps freezing, I think it's corrupt, can you fix it?" or "Scan this 200-page document with the twenty-five exhibits with twenty different outline formats," etc.  

          Even without the distractions that legal secretaries have to deal with, some of those documents are pure evil.  Like I said above, the illegible chicken scratch makes them look like they're covered in ants.

          And don't get me started on when lawyers mark up printouts of extensive blacklines -- those things can be hard enough to follow without the handwritten revisions.

          Once you get a handle on a document like that, you really don't want to have to look away from it because you have to look at the screen (or answer the phone, or talk to an attorney, etc.).

        •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

          She said when she looks away to click the mouse (which she doesn't have to do) it takes her "15-30 seconds" to find her place again on the page.

          I have been writing with Word since it came out.  I have been writing on computers since the early 1980s.  I have written thousands of published pages on Word.  There is no way a practiced typist needs nearly that long to find his/her place on the page.  I suggest she is not nearly the typist she claims she is, or she needs better ergonomics in her setup, or she's bullshitting, as she is in a lot of her other complaints.

          And I still see my little blinking insertion point in the open Word document on my second monitor.  

          This is so dumb. There is literally no function you cannot map to a keyboard command in any modern operating system, if you so desire.

          “I wore black because ... it's still my symbol of rebellion -- against a stagnant status quo, against our hypocritical houses of God, against people whose minds are closed to others' ideas.” -- Johnny Cash

          by RocketJSquirrel on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 11:34:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh and I forgot to mention (11+ / 0-)

        the bloating of MS Word with as you put it:

        Literally hundreds of shortcuts for nearly any arcane function you can think of.  Hundreds.
        Is precisely the point both she and I have made. By stuffing in all those useless arcane functions while eliminating the ones they have continuously maintained for over two decades, they make the product less accessible for the professional users who have stuck with it for so many years.

        Also regarding computer literacy, as it  happens I am a software engineer with over 30 years of professional experience, mostly with Microsoft technologies. I happen to know Frankenoid personally, I can vouch for her computer literacy, particularly as she is a long time user of this specific technology in a professional capacity. I´m afraid wannabe writers just don´t rise to the same bar as a professional user like Frankie. Not by a long shot.

        "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

        by Phil In Denver on Fri Mar 15, 2013 at 06:49:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just curious (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SlowNomad
          I´m afraid wannabe writers just don´t rise to the same bar as a professional user like Frankie. Not by a long shot.
          For a diary that is entirely based on a writer's presumed dismissive attitude towards the violently-expressed sentiments of a reader, do you realize just how incredibly, offensively dismissive that comes off? You know nothing about this person except that he claims to use word processors heavily, and to have written x, y, and z, and yet you are fully capable of judging everything about him and calling him a 'wannabe writer', based solely on the fact that he disagrees with your friend.

          This comments section boggles my mind. The diary is basically a complaint about the tone and attitude of the responses to a set of emails. And then when other people point out that they find the original emails incredibly offensive in their own right, they are being told that they aren't allowed to. Mostly implicitly, of course, but often in so many words. And they're being condescended to, repeatedly.

          Does this really not register on anyone's irony-meter here? Not even a little?

          Sometimes being a member of the human race just makes me ill.

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