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View Diary: Another day in the (gun crazy) U.S.A. (45 comments)

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  •  That boggles the mind. (7+ / 0-)

    You've been writing that all these "accidents" can't be accidental. Do you rule out causes of stupidity and carelessness, too? That's not a challenge; I'm just trying to understand something I have no experience with, whereas you seem to have experience, expertise and thoughtfulness.

    Part 1 of the boggle: If most -- or even some -- of these "accidents" are intentional, that means police and prosecutors don't want to file charges and bring the shooters to trial. The shooters get off with impunity. Nice lesson in accountability; how many of those shooters might try a repeat "accident" I wonder.

    Part 2 and the worst part to consider: a father intentionally shooting and killing his baby in front of the baby's mother and siblings. Horrible. Tragically, not impossible.

    We cannot mistake absolutism for principle, or substitute spectacle for politics, or treat name-calling as reasoned debate. -Pres. Obama, 1/21/13

    by SoCalSal on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 07:23:04 PM PDT

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    •  Many jurisdictions have an offense called "willful (8+ / 0-)

      negligence", if I recall correctly. For that not small segment of the population that is just to fucking inexcusably stupid to be let off with "but I didn't mean it".

      There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

      by oldpotsmuggler on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 08:20:55 PM PDT

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    •  We can't know for sure - unless every gun was (9+ / 0-)

      equipped with a miniature black box video cam recording everything it "looked" at and every time a round was chambered.

      Alcohol related injuries: 25% vehicle, 20% firearm. I suspect that the number of self shootings/total "accidental" shootings reflects a first approximation of carelessness. I'd guess that alcohol is a big factor. But we also see fairly sadistic misogynistic gunplay, (e.g. those videos showing a slender woman shooting a shotgun and being knocked off her feet - while someone was filming her).

      Yes, a lot of these shootings are UNINTENTIONAL - although not necessarily accidental. I'm starting to actively reject the word accidental because a shooting requires too  many non-random steps.

      A vehicle collision arising from a deer running onto a highway is a vehicle accident because the deer on a roadway is a risk factor that can be controlled. A vehicle collision resulting from bald tires is carelessness, if the owner didn't know the tires were bald; that's why we require annual safety inspections. A vehicle accident the results from drunk driving is not an accident, and it is not the result of carelessness. The alcoholic beverages didn't randomly find their way into a driver's body. It required a conscious decision to drink.

      There is a similar gradient for guns - from accident to careless to recklessness.

      Someone has to purchase the gun. Someone has to purchase the ammo. Someone has to load the ammo in the magazine or into the gun. Someone has to chamber the round and/or pull the hammer back (in a revolver) and/or click off the safety, etc.

      In most situations someone (an adult) had to put their finger inside the trigger guard.

      In the majority of shootings an additional step is necessary and MUST BE COINCIDENT with the finger on the trigger. The open end of the rifle had to be pointing at a person at the same time someone's finger was on the trigger.

      Do a quick 360 scan and an up/down scan around yourself. Now imagine any kind of rod in your hand and you'll see how the vast majority of random positions a gun could take DO NOT and CAN NOT intersect with a human being.

      Only when ALL of those steps earlier steps are taken AND the open end is pointed at a person AND someone's finger is on the trigger is there an injury or death by gunfire.

      A commenter recently suggested that a number of shootings were probably homicides with immediate remorse.

      When people claim the gun "just went off" to me it's like a car "just put itself in gear and drove itself down the road and hit someone." No, not usually. Usually there was a driver behind the wheel who turned the car on, put it in gear and failed to operate it in a safe manner.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 08:29:26 PM PDT

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    •  I don't think I said "intentionally shooting" (7+ / 0-)

      But routinely handling a loaded gun in the presence of children is already reckless endangerment in my opinion.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 08:31:46 PM PDT

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    •  IMO a lot of police shootings aren't really (7+ / 0-)

      accidental either.

      The shooters get off with impunity. Nice lesson in accountability; how many of those shooters might try a repeat "accident" I wonder.
      I consider all unintentional and intentional shootings to be extra-judicial killings. We diffuse the violence of them when we call them accidental shootings instead of unintentional killings with a gun.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 08:34:18 PM PDT

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    •  I am convinced many claimed suicides (7+ / 0-)

      are actually murders for similar reasons.

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