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View Diary: Oh, F*ck No - He Did Not Just Make A Joke About Rape (157 comments)

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  •  Some people cannot conceive that what they (46+ / 0-)

    want someone else doesn't want, as well.  The "golden rule" affirms their belief.

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is actually a very self-centered directive when it's addressed to a self-centered person -- one who can't perceive that another person's interests are different, if not opposite.

    To a certain extent, the culture of obedience being focused on compliance -- i.e. the desired result -- distracts us from the fact that exacting obedience is coercive and, indeed, the very essence of abuse. Moreover, people who assume that other people exist to be useful to them don't even know what abuse means. It doesn't occur to them that people exist to be respected, not exploited.

    Mostly, I suspect, the people who fall into the category of exploiters do so because, other than the gift of gab, they are bereft of practical talents whose fruits they might offer in exchange for what they need from others. It's even possible that the whole "science" of economics was developed by such people in an effort to provide a rational excuse for their own behavior. Why else start from the assumption that the economy is driven by demand? Why not, instead, suggest that trade and exchange are driven by surplus and a desire not to have it go to waste? Because the latter scenario does not comport with the experience of people whose hands are hinged backwards and whose understanding of process is nil.

    Dominators coerce. Maybe they're just acting on instinct and don't know what they do. Germans have a saying that encapsulates the attitude: "If you're not compliant, I'll have to use force."  Thus, the cause of the use of force is ascribed to the victim. Compliance (obedience) is presumed to be a virtue. It's not. If humans have rights, then coerced obedience is abuse.

    We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 03:29:45 AM PDT

    •  Patriarchy in a nutshell (21+ / 0-)

      Thanks for that chilling quote, Hannah. Anyone who wonders why societies didn't "resist" patriarchal invaders over their 5000-year trounce across the globe should ponder it. Assimilate or die, basically.

      Let's hope the arc of that moral universe really does bend toward justice.

    •  Fascinating comment, thanks. n/t (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tonyahky, Smoh, Shockwave, The Marti, elwior

      It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

      by karmsy on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 07:01:38 AM PDT

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    •  Thank you.... (12+ / 0-)

      What I'm about to do (or have done) to you hurts me more than it does you.  If only you behaved the way I want you to behave so I don't have to punish you for your willfulness.
      These statements have been used for centuries.  Not for anything unlawful, but for thinking 'outside the box'.  Because thinking differently (while completely legally) is scary to so many.
      Blame the victim for your own shortcomings.
      The culture of obedience is not a culture of innovation or progress.

      I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

      by Lilyvt on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 07:55:30 AM PDT

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      •  . (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tonyahky, Lilyvt, TexasTwister, elwior

        compliance to arbitrary rules requires "No Thinking allowed" ... not just 'thinking out of the box'.   One thing I have noticed about the so-called 'conservative' mindset is they seem to be attracted to authoritarian personalities but, at the same time, yak about 'freedom'.  In essence, they are conflicts of interest and they don't even know it.

        I find authoritative personalities repulsive and, having worked for some managers who unfortunately possessed that personality characteristic,  found they are extremely poor 'leaders'.   I know of 2 in the corporate world who basically destroyed a company with 1800 employees in less than 8 years in positions of "authority".  Their lust for authority and control far outweighed their ethics and BAM ... a shitload of good people lost their jobs because of them.

        "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance." -James Madison

        by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 11:50:54 AM PDT

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        •  Ya know what.... (5+ / 0-)

          Absolutely correct....
          'No thinking allowed' is exactly what the present repub party and what most corporations eschew.  Do as we say, not as we do....but even more importantly, do as we say, or else....
          There is no freedom at all in a 'no thoughts allowed' community (be it a political party or a corporation).  There is nothing but inbreeding of stagnant ideas leading to utter failure because of the very loss of fresh thought.

          I find authoritative personalities repulsive and, having worked for some managers who unfortunately possessed that personality characteristic,  found they are extremely poor 'leaders'.
          I, too, find authoritative personalities repulsive in their disregard for anyone else's ideas, and have worked for this type of manager and the outcome wasn't happy, healthy or productive for me, or, ultimately, the company.

          I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

          by Lilyvt on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 12:14:57 PM PDT

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          •  . (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lilyvt

            corporations say they want 'innovation' but they seem to put all the barriers in place preventing it.  I've seen that happen quite a few times.

            "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance." -James Madison

            by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 06:15:24 PM PDT

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    •  An interesting twist (6+ / 0-)

      This was an eye opening comment.  We, as women, have been taught since childhood to be careful, to fear, and to feel shame for being female/provocative (a natural state, biologically speaking).  

      The reality of this discussion is this:  If only we could get the male half of this equation to keep it in their pants - exhibit some self control - until both partners know it is right.  

      It is called respect.  

      Let's not let the dishonorable few make the rest of us slaves to their insanity.

      by issy on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:57:46 AM PDT

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      •  But for many of these people (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tonyahky, drmah, LilithGardener, elwior

        Respect is a one-way street. They reject every religious leader who said that everyone needs to be treated fairly. They are the ones who decide how others should treat them, but don't actually care how they treat others.

        Americans can make our country better.

        by freelunch on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 11:02:52 AM PDT

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        •  Abusers are often attracted to religious teachings (4+ / 0-)

          and political philosophies that help them "justify" their abuse of others. A wife beater may join a church that preaches "female submissiveness", or that things like divorce or birth control are wrong because it not only provides them with a kind of moral cover for their actions, it also gives them yet another tool they can use to coerce and control their victims.

    •  Do a lot of men want to be raped? (5+ / 0-)

      Really?

      The problem is that these people are totally unwilling or unable to put themselves in the position of those they are hurting. They do not apply the golden rule. They do not want to be raped. They do not want to be treated as dirt. They do not want to be beat up or stolen from or mocked or attacked or intimidated or any of the other things that these childish men routinely does to women and minorities.

      They are not even trying to follow the golden rule. They don't care what Jesus or any other religious teacher taught. They are shameless.

      Americans can make our country better.

      by freelunch on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 11:01:05 AM PDT

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    •  So true (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior
      "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is actually a very self-centered directive when it's addressed to a self-centered person -- one who can't perceive that another person's interests are different, if not opposite.
      And taken by an abusive person it easily becomes, "Of course, you want what I want, because then I'll be happy and you want me to be happy, right? I know you don't like me when I'm unhappy. So, what about it. [message - We should do it my way. Just because I'll behave like a totally shit if we don't.]"

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 02:20:56 PM PDT

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    •  That's a quote from a poem (0+ / 0-)
      Germans have a saying that encapsulates the attitude: "If you're not compliant, I'll have to use force."
      Google "Erlkoenig." It's basically a mythological account of child mortality (or child molestation).

      261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

      by MaikeH on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 04:47:06 PM PDT

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