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View Diary: Another day in the (gun crazy) U.S.A. (45 comments)

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  •  We already know that alcohol is a factor in (8+ / 0-)

    many injuries. 25% of fatal injuries involve alcohol + vehicle. 20% of fatal injuries involve alcohol + a firearm. Laws to separate lawful alcohol consumption from lawful RKBA are sorely needed, in my opinion. If you want to get depressed about the state of permissiveness see this study:

    A Review of Legislation Restricting the Intersection of Firearms and Alcohol in the U.S.

    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

    by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 04:52:23 PM PDT

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    •  When the gun lobby says arm the college students (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shopkeeper, WakeUpNeo, SoCalSal, StrayCat

      Which they did after the Virginia Tech massacre, I wonder how many have been in a bar in a college town on a Saturday night.

      "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

      by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 05:07:58 PM PDT

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      •  No one under 21 can buy a handgun. (5+ / 0-)

        That's federal law.

        Between 18 and 21, they can own a rifle. It's important to keep that clear.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 05:13:54 PM PDT

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        •  And no one under 21 can buy beer (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Egg, shopkeeper, WakeUpNeo, StrayCat

          Which didn't stop me when I was in college, nor my sons, nor virtually any other college student.

          "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

          by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 05:17:41 PM PDT

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        •  But state laws are more lenient (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greengemini, myboo, LilithGardener

          In December, Wonkblog had this post The 6 craziest state gun laws, including this craziness:

          1. Concealed carry at 16 — with no permit: Most states that allow people to carry a concealed weapon on their person require gun owners to obtain a permit before doing so. But four states — Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming and Vermont — allow concealed carry without any permit. That means, the Brady Campaign’s Brian Malte tells me, that Jared Loughner was in full compliance with Arizona law up until the moment he used his concealed weapons to kill six people and severely injure Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

          Vermont, however, stands out from the pack because it allows people as young as 16 to conceal carry without parental permission, as well as buy handguns. So a Vermont teenager aged 16 can’t legally go to an R-rated movie alone or join the military, but he can buy a handgun and carry it in his jeans and be completely within the limits of the law.

          That was confirmed by a DKos RKBAer and Vermont resident, who posted a comment that he would raise the age to 18 but leave the rest of that law intact.

          My jaw dropped.

          We cannot mistake absolutism for principle, or substitute spectacle for politics, or treat name-calling as reasoned debate. -Pres. Obama, 1/21/13

          by SoCalSal on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 10:03:22 PM PDT

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          •  In the article I reference above (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SoCalSal

            (which was published in 2010) fewer than half the states prohibit sale of a firearm to someone intoxicated.

            Bear in mind, that a number of states have changed their firearm laws since 2010, but that is just so depressing to me.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 12:58:47 AM PDT

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            •  Horrified is my reaction. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener

              and mystified by the apparent conflict between federal and state gun laws. No time today for any online research for answers.

              We cannot mistake absolutism for principle, or substitute spectacle for politics, or treat name-calling as reasoned debate. -Pres. Obama, 1/21/13

              by SoCalSal on Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 07:54:24 AM PDT

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      •  The issue under the individual right (5+ / 0-)

        as I understand it, (under Hller) is that it is a right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense in one's home.

        Subsequent case law (as I understand it) is that the right to self defense extends outside one's home but necessarily everywhere (schools, government, etc.)

        It seems plausible that an argument would pass SCOTUS, that one's right to self defense need not be checked at the door of any venue where food and/or alcohol is served.

        On the other hand, it seems easy to show that people who are not trained in safe carry and handling of a firearm and in firearm law are a menace to themselves and others.

        Since the 2A protection involves self defense, it seems well within Heller that individuals could be required to be trained and licensed, before they can reasonably rely on a handgun for self defense.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 17, 2013 at 05:21:58 PM PDT

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