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View Diary: Abbreviated pundit roundup: Iraq, 10 years later (101 comments)

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  •  Yes, it is a shame to see how far that Iraq has (0+ / 0-)

    fallen from the heavenly days of Saddam Hussein.

    Certainly a downer for the Sunni minority.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 04:44:00 AM PDT

    •  Glad you thought it was worthwhile. (5+ / 0-)
      It will take eight years, cost the lives of 4,488 U.S. troops and leave tens of thousands more grievously injured. Al-Qaeda will gain a new foothold, and the civil war we unleash will kill more than 100,000 Iraqis. We will spend $3 trillion, our war in Afghanistan will be orphaned and the big winner will be Iran. But Iraq will be a better place."

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 04:57:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Umm...did you read the lead-in? (0+ / 0-)

        Whether or not it was worthwhile, the reality is that corrupt and awful Iraq was not exactly heaven on earth before the invasion.

        As to the parade of horribles to come, it hasn't happened yet.
        Not only that, it must also be compared to what would have happened in the wake of Hussein's death.

        Yes, we spent a shitpile of money that we didn't need to spend and we lost people we didn't need to lose.

        That goes absolutely to  "was it worth it" question.

        But trying to imagine all the terrible consequences and pretending that the alternative was sweetness and light is pure bullshit.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:04:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it also begs (6+ / 0-)

          the question of whether imperialism is morally correct.  Regardless of whether Iraq was previously wonderful, that was up to the Iraqi people.  We did not have a moral or legal right to invade and depose.

          Justice For Will Will spent his brief, courageous life fighting for the rights we all take for granted. Please share his story to support the fight!

          by KibbutzAmiad on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:32:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Begs nothing. (0+ / 0-)

            Unless, of course, you can find something I wrote to the effect that we were right to go in there.

            Hint: You won't.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 06:07:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You did attribute (0+ / 0-)

              the "heavenly days of Saddam Hussein" to commenters who never made any such over-the-top statement.  In such a situation, you shouldn't get your panties in a twist because someone attributed something to you that you didn't say.

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 06:24:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Sweetness and Light? (8+ / 0-)

          No one, here or anywhere I've seen, is saying that Iraq was sweetness and light. Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator. The US made sure of it by aiding his way to power, arming him in the Iran/Iraq war, and continuing to support him until he became inconveniently belligerent. Even after the first Gulf War, the US allowed Hussein to use fixed wing aircraft to put down uprisings.

          But the fact is, we went to war based on calculated lies, for reasons that had nothing to do with 9/11, and the result was hundreds of thousands of squandered lives, triliions of lost dollars, and a broken and corrupt country left in its wake.

          Might the Arab Spring have spread to Iraq? Might Saddam have deposed by a democratic uprising? We can't know, and never will, as this war forestalled that opportunity.

          We'd do far better to withhold support for brutal dictators in the first place, rather than engaging in imperial adventures to try to reshuffle the dictators to our liking, and open up oil and other contracts in the process.

        •  You seem to be trying to make a point ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... against something that you only imagine that people are saying.  You are arguing against the voices in your own head.  Nobody is saying that Saddam was anything except a brutal dictator.  And the parade of horribles is already here and shifting into higher gear.  The people in the region - not the pundits in DC - have actually said that the US invasion and the chaotic aftermath delayed the Arab Spring because they did not want to bring the chaos to their country and they saw the US as an unreliable, over-bearing partner.

          Nobody can predict the future - let alone alternate timelines - with 100% accuracy.  But we can absolutely and convincingly make the argument that the entire region would have been much better off if the Bush administration had not lied us into the Iraq War.  To argue otherwise, after all that has come out in the past ten years, is to show that you have not really learned anything from this terrible experience.

          Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

          by Terrapin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 10:59:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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