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View Diary: Assault weapons ban moribund. Will only be offered as amendment in package of gun-control bills (577 comments)

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  •  It'll take more than spitting in one hand (4+ / 0-)
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    KVoimakas, FrankRose, ancblu, VectorScalar

    and wishing in the other to make that happen.  There isn't even enough will and support to get an AWB re-passed, let alone get 3/4 of the nation to support repealing the 2nd.

    •  The will is there, it's that the GOP controlled (1+ / 0-)
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      house is insane. That's the problem and Dem Senators don't want to be on the record for something that will not pass the house and then be in the position of getting hammered by the NRA while also having nothing to show for it.

      And you're supporting the GOP house with your position - and this post in particular.

      •  Dem senators don't want to support something (5+ / 0-)

        that is politically damaging.

        But you want them to vote for something that is politically damaging....who is 'helping the GOP'?

        This idiocy has handed Virginia, Florida, Ohio, Penn, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin to the GOP.
        This gun control debacle is the best political thing to happen to them in 20 yrs.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 02:07:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Frank, you're the best thing to happen to the GOP (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CoExistNow, lyvwyr101

          .... your insistence to FEEL safer by owning a gun is the problem. Stop deluding yourself, comeback to reality and let's pass some commonsense gun laws. Like the majority of the country wants, including the 56% that support an AWB.

          And, it's not politically damaging - if you don't push you don't understand how much support there is or not. And regardless if it passes or not the idea of an AWB is out there, a majority of people want it passed and now that it didn't, NRA supporting politicians will pay a price.

          •  It has nothing to do with me having (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ancblu, SquareSailor, noway2, KVoimakas

            to 'feel safer'. I don't own a firearm that would be impacted by the AWB
            That's why I don't support infringing on the liberties of innocent Americans.

            "not politically damaging"
   that why "perhaps as many as a dozen Democratic senators would also reject it"?
            Or as you put it "Dem Senators don't want to be on the record for something that will not pass the house and then be in the position of getting hammered"?
             Is that why the original AWB was allowed to sunset with nary a peep?
            Is that why the passage of the original AWB led to the Republican revolution?

            "majority of people want it passed"
            Gun control has far less support now than it did in 1994. How did that work out politically?

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:46:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Gallup????????!!!!!!!!!!!???? (1+ / 0-)
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              •  OK. Here's Pew's long term trend. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                SquareSailor, ancblu, noway2, KVoimakas

                What do you think is more important – to protect the right of Americans to own guns, OR to control gun ownership?

                Protect the right of Americans to own guns.

                Gun Control:

                In other news, google does still exist and can be used before hitting 'post'.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:38:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Frank, you're a hack. Why would anyone listen (1+ / 0-)
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                  to anything you have to say - you're paid to post here. Get lost.

                •  yeah, the gun lobby and industry has bought (1+ / 0-)
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                  congress and works to create an unregulated free market that sells, sells, sells and makes guns seem warm and fuzzy so people buy them.

                  Buy a gun so you can protect yourself in the 1 in 1 million chance someone breaks into your home and even then the chances of you using your gun correctly and slim to none - but buy it anyway because freedom and "shall not be infringed"

                  Watch out! Roving bands of mexican gangs - buy a gun now!

                  Watch out! Unamerican Kenyan socialist is President - buy a gun now!

                  The NRA and you also work to let criminals, the mentally ill and domestic abusers to buy guns because, you know, profits.

                  •  ZOMG!!!! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!! (1+ / 0-)
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                    Can't believe that argument didn't work out for you.

                    You got nothing. Your insistence on infringing on the liberties of innocent Americans because of your distrust of your fellow citizens has ended in a foreseeable way....utter failure.
                    The consequences are yet to be determined. Though we do have the  historical precedence to make a foreseeable estimation.

                    Way to go.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:16:13 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Here's your nothing (1+ / 0-)
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                      I'm done "debating" with a moron. Read this and then wash the blood from your hands:

                      Harvard/Reuters Forum on Gun Violence

                      Background Checks Lead to Confiscation Claim De-bunked

                      Guns Kill More than Cars in Many States and Are Trending to Overtake Nationally

                      The Utah Gun Experiment - more guns = more gun violence that car violence

                      California Can Take Guns from Mentally Ill - Want to do something to keep guns from mentally ill, follow Calif lead

                      NRA on the Side of Criminals - Congressional Lackey's Vote Down Bill to Take Guns from Criminals

                      NRA Wants Domestic Abusers to Have Guns

                      NRA Softens Laws for Mentally Ill Getting Guns

                      GOPers on Board with Universal Background Checks


                      Gun Violence and Health Care Costs

                      John Lott Debunked

                      American Psychological Association: Gun Violence Research

                      Closing the Gun Show Loophole Is the Right Way to Go - Mark Kelly


                      WSJ - Get a Gun Safe and Use It!

                      What Researchers Learned About Gun Violence Before Congress Killed Funding

                      NRA Inflamatory Rhetoric Is Wrong

                      Mike Thompson Gun Bill 2013

                      Gun Violence Research Shut Down

                      Gun Violence Research Shut Down

                      Gun Violence Stats

                      Gun Murders and Aggrevated Assaults down - Suicides and Non-Fatal Injuries Up

                      This isn't a partisan issue:

                      Dems Support 2nd Amendment & Gun Control

                      Gun Safety Research

                      Assault Weapon Trafficking
                      A man accused of buying dozens of assault weapons and illegally selling them at gun shows across the Carolinas pleaded guilty Wednesday to gun trafficking in federal court in Charlotte.

                      Feds Investigate How Suspected White Supremacist (a Felon) Obtained Aresenal
                      Federal agents are trying to determine how a suspected Ohio white supremacist with a felony conviction for manslaughter acquired a cache of 18 assault weapons and other firearms, along with high-capacity magazines and more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition, according to federal law enforcement officials and court documents reviewed by NBC News.

                      13th Bullet - Mark Kelly, Republican
                      In his own testimony, Mr Kelly cited the example of the Tucson massacre’s youngest victim to highlight the dangers of high-capacity ammunition clips, which Mr Obama wants to limit to 10 bullets. “Christina-Taylor Green — nine years old, born on 9/11 2001 — was shot with the 13th bullet or after,” Mr Kelly told the Senate judiciary committee.

                      Connecticut Poll: In Favor of Stricter Gun Control

                      NRA Endorsement May Cost Candidates Votes
                      39% say they would be less likely to vote for a candidate who had the NRA's support to just 26% who say they'd be more likely to, with 32% saying it wouldn't influence them one way or the other. Among independents 41% consider an NRA endorsement to be a turn off to 27% who say it's a plus.

                      56 - 39 percent support for a ban on the sale of assault weapons

                      Texans In Favor of Assault Weapons Ban
                      49% of Texas voters support an assault weapons ban to just 41% opposed to it. Most Democrats support it, independents favor it by a 53/34 margin, and even among Republicans 23% support it. We've found support for the assault weapons ban everywhere we've polled it, but it's particularly striking to see that voters favor it in a pro-gun, anti-Obama state like Texas.

                      James Baker, conservative Texas Republican, Sec'y State and Treasury, Reagan and Bush Sr. Admins
                      Bipartisan Hunting Buddies
                      We are as different as North and South. One of us, John Dingell, is a liberal Michigan Democrat and the other, Jim Baker, is a conservative Texas Republican. We met during the Reagan administration and have often found ourselves on opposite sides of political battles. We have the bruises to show for them.. ... But the harsh truth is that too many Americans are dying from gun-related shootings — more than 30,000 each year and more than one million since 1960. Gun violence now rivals traffic accidents as the leading cause of death by injury in the United States. Quite simply, gun violence threatens to overwhelm us.

                      Wall Street Journal:
                      Mike Thompson: A Middle Path to Reducing Gun Violence
                      Americans support universal background checks, stronger prosecution of gun offenses and limits on ammunition.

                      Colorado Public Opinion
                      Exclusive: Poll shows 55 percent of Coloradans favor stricter gun laws  More than half of Coloradans, including 60 percent of unaffiliated voters, support stricter gun laws across the board, according to a new poll first reported by FOX31 Denver.

                      Memo to Gun Rights Advocates: Take Note of What Reagan and Scalia Had to Say

                      Connecticut Police
                      State's urban police chiefs want gun restrictions
                      Top police commanders from several of the state's cities and towns have thrown their weight behind Newtown police Chief Michael Kehoe, who inserted himself firmly into the gun-control debate last week by calling for a ban on assault weapons.

                      George Bush appointed Federal Judge:
                      A conservative case for an assault weapons ban

                      Conservative Commentator:
                      Republicans support NRA at Their Electoral Peril

                      Conservative Congressional Leader:
                      A small crack in wall of GOP opposition to gun reform?

                      Conservative Presidents Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Jr. and George Bush Sr.. VP Cheney

                      Conservative Generals and the Department of Defense: Colin Powell, Stanley McCrystal and Leon Penetta

                      •  But....I thought I was smart enough to get paid... (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ancblu, andalusi

                        I haz a sad.

                        Here's an idea.
                        If you find owning a gun to be too dangerous for you....don't. fucking. own. one.

                        Keep your fears off of the liberties of innocent Americans.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:38:21 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  It's not myself I'm afraid of it's you and the (1+ / 0-)
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                          countless other morons who do stupid things with guns, including advocate for more guns for all - that's the point.

                          Until that changes - you're going to be hearing a TON more from people just like me who aren't going to stop until gun violence comes down and the public square is free gun happy fools.

                          •  I haven't done anything stupid with a gun, nor (1+ / 0-)
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                            advocated for more guns for all.

                            Way to start strong, big-shooter.

                            "Until that changes"
                            It was never true......and that's about as far as your threat to infringe on the liberties of innocent Americans should have, and did go.

                            In 2014 we get to see the consequences of your futile & misguided actions based upon your distrust of your fellow citizens, your disgust of their liberties & your dismissal of the Constitution that protects them.
                            You may want to look to 1994 for a primer.

                            Great job.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:55:54 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, I'm sure all gun owners say they've (1+ / 0-)
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                            never done anything stupid with a gun until, of course, they do. Happens all the time. But of course, that won't be you.

                            Just be careful out there, trigger:

                            YAKIMA, Wash. — The pregnant Terrace Heights woman shot by her husband last week died Wednesday.

                            Yakima County Coroner Jack Hawkins said 27-year-old McKaylee Higgs had been on life support and died Wednesday evening at Yakima Regional Medical and Cardiac Center after she was taken off a respirator.

                            Hawkins said an autopsy Thursday confirmed Higgs had been fatally wounded by a gunshot wound to the neck that caused severe damage to her spinal cord and a dangerous buildup of fluid on the brain.

                            He said Higgs was never conscious and that doctors said her injuries had caused severe and irreparable brain damage. He also confirmed that Higgs was about 10 weeks pregnant. The fetus also died.

                            Sheriff’s deputies have said Higgs’ husband, 25-year-old Cory Lindblom, shot his wife in the bedroom of their duplex on Nola Loop after he mistook her for an intruder.


                            And, wait, there's more!

                            Many gun owners buy a weapon to protect their home. They envision a scenario in which they might use it--a sound in the middle of the night, a stranger in the house. But that "intruder" isn't necessarily a burglar. Sometimes it's a neighbor's kid, drunk and confused, sneaking into your house instead of his own house, which looks nearly identical, on the same cul-de-sac. That's how 16-year-old Caleb Gordley died this weekend. A few days earlier, 27-year old McKaylee Higgs died from a gunshot wound she received when her husband mistook her for an intruder. She was ten weeks pregnant. Last month, an Autistic man in New Jersey got off the bus from his special needs school and walked up to the wrong house. When he pounded on the door, the homeowner shot him, assuming he was a burglar. In the United States, armed home invasions are rare, and accidental shootings are common. A study of 99,000 gunshot patients in emergency rooms in the Washington D.C. area found that only 1% of the injuries were the result of legal interventions. If you heard a noise in your house, what would you do?
                          •  Sounds scary. Don't own one..... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ancblu, KVoimakas

                            And let others make that same decision for themselves.

                            Freedom sure is neat, innit?

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 09:04:03 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, Supreme Court agrees with freedom (1+ / 0-)
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                            and taking freedoms away - America's neat, innit?

                          •  Apparently you aren't familiar with the 3 branches (1+ / 0-)
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                            But yes, America is neat.
                            Unfortunate you find our liberties so frightening.

                            It's really not that scary.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 09:08:38 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, me and the Supreme Court and Justice (1+ / 0-)
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                            Scalia are afraid of our freedoms.

                            Are you an idiot? Honestly question.

                          •  I'll answer that question for you - yes, (1+ / 0-)
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                            you are an idiot:

                            Memo to Gun Rights Advocates: Take Note of What Reagan and Scalia Had to Say

                            The Supreme Court HAS ruled to limit the Second Amendment, and has left the door open to limit it more.

                            Justice Antonin Scalia, hardly a liberal jurist by the stretch of anyone's imagination, made clear in his majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller that "the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited." While the Supreme Court in Heller held that the District of Columbia's "ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense," Justice Scalia emphasized that,

                            nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.
                            Many in the extreme gun rights crowd, however, apparently consider their unfettered ability to purchase high clip semi-automatic weapons at gun shows without having to register them with anyone anywhere more important than the sanctity of life. They will go to the barricades to defend the ability of John Q. Public to purchase an AR-15 -- the type of semi-automatic used to murder the children at Sandy Hook Elementary School -- anywhere, at any time, without any limitations or restrictions whatsoever.

                            What part of that don't you understand?
                          •  Still working on that response or did I hurt (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            your feelings again?

                            While you contemplate that killer comeback. Here's something to think about - you shouldn't fuck with moms, especially those that have had their kids ripped apart by an AR-15:

                            INDIANAPOLIS, March 19, 2013 PRNewswire via COMTEX -- We are disappointed to learn that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has broken off the Assault Weapons Ban from an otherwise comprehensive gun violence prevention bill. Sen. Dianne Feinstein has long been a champion for American women and moms by asking for common-sense gun regulations, and we continue to stand firmly behind her efforts.

                            Even after the Sandy Hook Elementary mass shooting, during which a murderer used an AR 15 assault weapon to fire 152 rounds in less than 5 minutes and massacre 20 children and 6 adults, Congress is continuing to let a vocal minority of lobbyists controlled and funded by the gun industry dictate law making on gun issues. Poll data from last week showed that 57 percent of Americans support a ban on assault weapons - a clear majority (

                            We hope that at the very least, the Senate bill will include a ban on high-capacity magazines like the one proposed by Sen. Frank Lautenberg.

                            Assault weapons are meant for our military -- they do not belong on our streets or in our schools. If an Assault Weapons Ban is not passed this session by Congress, American mothers will bring the fight to their state legislatures and to the mid-term elections. We will not forget which legislators stood down when our children most needed them to stand up.

                            SOURCE Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America

                    •  And while your at it, here's some more (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      ... repent:

                      Gun Violence - More Guns Does Not = More Safety

                      NY Times: Research Shows Gun Ownership Is Down Everywhere

                      Nixon Wished for a Total Handgun Ban

                      "I don't know why any individual should have a right to have a revolver in his house," Nixon said in a taped conversation with aides. "The kids usually kill themselves with it and so forth." He asked why "can't we go after handguns, period?" Nixon went on: "I know the rifle association will be against it, the gun makers will be against it." But "people should not have handguns." He laced his comments with obscenities, as was typical.

                      • (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        You really got me there, Tiger.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 08:38:59 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yeah, just about the only people on your side (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          are NRA tools such as yourself and your Daily Kos gun club.

                          •  And about ten Democratic Senators (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            nextstep, lyvwyr101, FrankRose

                            Which is why the best we can expect out of the Senate is limited. I don't know why Reid is bringing a packaged bill to the floor unless it is to give cover to Dems who vote against it. The AWB will not be part of the bill that comes to the floor, although Reid will allow it to be proposed as an amendment.

                            MB wrote a good diary on Tuesday morning regarding Reid dropping the AWB. The Speaker will only bring bills in the House that passed the Senate so the best we are going to do this session of Congress is more expansive background checks, a better data base to check against, and some constraints on "straw purchases". There will be no AWB or limit on magazine capacity. However, it's a start.

                            "let's talk about that"

                            by VClib on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:23:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            This is just the beginning.

                             There will be setbacks---sadly---while lives hang in the balance---but those of us fighting for more restrictive saner gun laws will not be backing down.

                            No retreat---no surrender.

                            One of the posters here had a great comment---- that while gun ownershio may be a personal choice: what choice do the victims have?

                            Mayan Word For 'Apocalypse' Actually Translates More Accurately As "Time Of Pale Obese Gun Monsters."......the Onion

                            by lyvwyr101 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:16:23 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Same response I gave above to that comment: (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FrankRose, andalusi, lyvwyr101

                            Two things:

                            Most firearm related deaths are suicides. So yes, it is a choice.

                            Most firearm related homicides are committed by people who are otherwise criminals. It's criminal on criminal crime (see, drugs and gangs). So yes, they have a choice.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:39:22 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You have an issue. (0+ / 0-)

                            Mayan Word For 'Apocalypse' Actually Translates More Accurately As "Time Of Pale Obese Gun Monsters."......the Onion

                            by lyvwyr101 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:41:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Facts suck eh? nt (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:54:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  Blah, blah, blah - Frank, heard it all before from (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              the same type of NRA hacks as yourself.

              Most gun owners support tougher gun legislation. Most of the American people support an AWB.

              It has political support, ie, people support tougher gun control - the problem is the gun industry buys politicians.

              And your problem is you're a hack for the gun lobby/industry - whether you realize it or not.

        •  ...really? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lyvwyr101, LilithGardener

          Gun control handed Ohio over to the GOP?  Are you from Ohio?  Are you familiar with Ohio politics?  Because I just don't think that's true, although if you have reasons for that statement that make sense I may be persuaded.  Right now though, I just don't see it.

          "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

          by Silvia Nightshade on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 05:01:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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