Skip to main content

View Diary: "a woman is only valuable in so much as she is loved or valued by a man" (159 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  The point is it's not as innocuous as it seems (15+ / 0-)

    and people are blind to it.  But as a single woman with no kids, I know exactly what she is on about.

    I am invisible in this society and have no value, and believe me, I am made to know it by how women are talked about and portrayed every day.

    Do you not see that it is the grossest idolatry to speak of the market as though it were the rival of God?

    by kismet on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:06:27 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Even by progressives. (6+ / 0-)

      Do you not see that it is the grossest idolatry to speak of the market as though it were the rival of God?

      by kismet on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:06:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Your comment comes the closest to making (5+ / 0-)

      sense of any that I've read here agreeing with the position of the diarist.

      I don't believe anyone using that phrase is attempting to suggest that a woman has importance only as to their relationship to men; rather they're simply trying to personalize a situation to create a bit more empathy.  And even to your point, I was going to point out that single people in general, past a certain age, are invisible in our society.  However, it's not quite the same, is it?  It's still assumed that men, even if they don't have wives or children, have or had a career that lent importance to their lives, whereas that assumption doesn't exist for women - or there's an assumption that a career isn't sufficient to lend importance to a woman's life.

      But I wouldn't let it bother you too much.  For humans, relationships are incredibly important and we're all placed into boxes based upon those relationships or lack of them.  And we all place others into those boxes based upon our own personal experience.  When others don't see those relationships, they don't know what box to put you into, and so they feel uncomfortable and prefer to just overlook you.  The one thing I learned by being one of those single people for 15 years is that whether other people can find the right box for me is pretty unimportant as long as I've found the right box for myself.

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:00:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Day to day (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Black Max, gustynpip, Penny GC

        I don't really think about it too much, I just go on living.

        But what bothers me is how aggressively people deny or minimize this issue.  This is what makes me think that we're farther from the tipping point on full inclusion of women than we are on some other historically contentious civil rights barriers.

        Do you not see that it is the grossest idolatry to speak of the market as though it were the rival of God?

        by kismet on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:34:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Philosophically (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Black Max, gustynpip, Penny GC

          America privileges the rugged individual. Men are seen as individuals and as actors.

          Although men do have relationships, we don't define them by relationships.  If you take it to the extreme, think about cultures where the woman's name is erased not only by her husband's name but by her son's (some Islamic/Hindu cultures) her son's, she loses her first name too and is referred too only as X's mother.

          So that is the extreme of relational defining and erasing the woman...we're not comfortable with that, but we are comfortable with less extreme rhetoric that's on the same spectrum.

          Do you not see that it is the grossest idolatry to speak of the market as though it were the rival of God?

          by kismet on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:37:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm glad you commented, because I wanted to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Black Max

          apologize.  After I hit post, I realized my last sentence was kind of patronizing.  Kind of minimized the "set apart" feeling one has always being the "odd man out", with the majority of people just not being comfortable around you.

          I was fortunate in that I have a glitch in my brain and am not very socially observant, so didn't recognize how "unacceptable" I was considered until I finally married and felt the difference in people's reactions and perceptions of me.  I was dumbfounded by the difference in my social interactions - with the very same people I'd known and interacted with before.  It's quite bizarre.  the best advice I can give is to try and find other singles you feel comfortable with.  And that gets more difficult as you get older and there are fewer of them and your interests get more defined.  What we do know is that society is not going to change for us, so we have to figure out a way to deal with all the difficulties involved.

          "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

          by gustynpip on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:09:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site