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View Diary: Calling the war in Iraq a 'mistake' is easy. The reality is more malignant (241 comments)

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  •  The loss of international prestige... (11+ / 0-) yet another consequence of the invasion of Iraq.  The Obama administration is granted the benefit of the doubt, but if we don't get the heck out of Afghanistan and start doing things other than invade countries (like leading the global warming movement or something) we will be dismissed as anything other than a military superpower with a mental problem.

    The only selfish silver lining for me is that during the buildup to the Iraq war, I discovered DailyKos as an "oasis of truth".  Until then I thought that I was living among aliens from outer space.

    I just hope that Obama can hold back the neo-cons.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:36:27 AM PDT

    •  1% don't care about US status or US itself (6+ / 0-)

      harm done by Iraq war

      What we Lost: Top Ten Ways the Iraq War Harmed the US

      moral issue - the people who lied us into this war don't care what happened to the people or country of Iraq.  Do the American people care about what has been done in Iraq? ( We are #1 !!!)

      here is what we did to Iraq

      •  1% seems lowball. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        During the Viet Nam atrocity, we saw images of the bloody mess every night and knew someone who was threatened with being called up. Now it's all purposely tucked away from sight. It literally seems unreal to most Americans.

    •  Iran will be the test case for Obama's non-neocon (5+ / 0-)


      The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

      by Wolf10 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:01:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Obama admin has already blown through its (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave, dave146

      entire allotment of Benefit of the Doubt, and if you doubt that, talk to almost anyone from any country other than USAUSAUSA. And how about them drones and Hellfires, hey? And spying on our own fellow Americans? And don't you really like how the Obamites have "handled" the whole "banking crisis" thing, and fraudulent foreclosures, and on and fucking on? And which one of your friends and neighbors and family members will be "the last one to die in Iraganakifanistan?

      Now we have people, Serious People, telling us we must be very afraid about fearing a future “Vietnam Syndrome,” that intelligent reluctance to once again punch the Tar Baby, BLIP!, with both fists, both feet and a headbutt too. Still, there's this affection for all the other imperial activities “we” are involved in, like killing Wogs in Afpakistan and a lot of other places. Some are convinced the Iraq thing was just an example of "bad management," not fundamental stupidity compounded by evil intent. They have a nice excuse for the military, that the “civilian leadership” and a few assh__e “top military officers” who get there by working the processes that bring them to the “decider” spot as they did with Korea and Vietnam and on and on, can you spell McChrystal, and Petraeus?, were the the reason that all did not go smoothly.

      How about it, Serious People who are trying to keep a stealth presence in Notagainistan, and keep the stupid War For Terror going, and pick another dumb-shit fight with Iran? “With enough soldiers,” with more “sexy, game-changin' weapons,” with people in high places with the right political bent, and I bet nobody there in the Imperial Capital has any more idea of what constitutes a textbook case of how TO “engage in a war and its aftermath.” Got a blueprint for going to war with Iran? Got a set of ideas on how the “Afghanistan” exercise, the “War is nothing but a racket” exercise, among the other ones that are in the offing, should have been undertaken? Now that once again “we” come to the end, with nothing but wealth transfer and dead people and increased instability and decreased security to show for it, what's next? Faugh.

      And how about another silly tiny little question that means something to the dumb-sh_t GIs and Gyrenes who were sent to do the Big Deciders’ bidding, some of them believing they were actually on a Crusade to preserve Freedomnliberty ™ and serve our “national interests” and "take revenge on the people who knocked down the World Trade Center and all that"?:


      The First and the Last
          The first American soldier killed in the Vietnam War was Air Force T-Sgt. Richard B. Fitzgibbon Jr. He is listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having a casualty date of June 8, 1956. His name was added to the Wall on Memorial Day 1999.

          First battlefield fatality was Specialist 4 James T. Davis who was killed on December 22, 1961.

          The last American soldier killed in the Vietnam War was Kelton Rena Turner, an 18-year old Marine. He was killed in action on May 15, 1975, two weeks after the evacuation of Saigon, in what became known as the Mayaguez incident.
          Others list Gary L. Hall, Joseph N. Hargrove and Danny G. Marshall as the last to die in Vietnam. These three US Marines Corps veterans were mistakenly left behind on Koh Tang Island during the Mayaguez incident. They were last seen together but unfortunately to date, their fate is unknown. They are located on panel 1W, lines 130 – 131.

          The last pilot casualty in the country of Vietnam occurred during the Embassy evacuation in Saigon, William C. Nystal and Michael J. Shea both died on the helicopter on April 30, 1975 approaching the USS Hancock in the China Sea (both are located at 1W, 124). The last pilot killed in the Vietnam war was Air Force helicopter pilot Second Lieutenant Richard Vandegeer who was killed on Koh Tang Island, Cambodia. This occured during the Mayaguez incident when his helicopter crashed on May 15, 1975. It is concidered the last combat action of the Vietnam War.

          The youngest Vietnam KIA is believed to be Dan Bullock at 15 years old.
          The oldest person on the Wall is Dwaine McGriff at 63 years old.
          At least 5 men killed in Vietnam were 16 years old.
          At least 12 men killed in Vietnam were 17 years old.
          There are 120 persons who listed foreign countries as their home of record.
          At least 25,000 of those killed were 20 years old or younger.
          More than 17,000 of those killed were married.
          Veterans killed on their first day in Vietnam 997 (unconfirmed)
          Veterans killed on their last day in Vietnam 1,448 (unconfirmed)
          Number of Chaplains on the Wall — 16 (2 Medal Of Honor)
          Number of Women on the Wall — 8 (7 Army, 1 USAF – 7,484 served)
          There are 226 Native Americans on the Memorial.
          There are 22 countries represented on the Memorial.
          Most common name on the Memorial “Smith” with 667 veterans.
          The most casualties for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 casualties.
          The most casualties for a single month was May 1968, 2,415 casualties were incurred.

      Who will the entries be on the next set of walls for the next set of wars that will be “competently engaged in?” Who will be the first, and the last, one to die for the next set of incompetences, or whatever they are?

      "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

      by jm214 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 12:13:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Remember all the international pre-invasion (5+ / 0-)

      demonstrations, in which millions of people, all over the world, took to the streets in protest of the obviously-coming U.S. invasion of Iraq?

      They ignored Brent Scowcroft when he wrote in August 2002, "Don't Attack Saddam." They ignored the Army War College when it warned of the perils of invasion and occupation in a February 2003 report, Reconstructing Iraq: Insights, Challenges, And Missions For Military Forces In A Post-Conflict Scenario". They ignored Hans Blix when he said he had found no evidence of WMD and sought more time to make sure he was right.
      The Bush gang didn't just ignore those individuals.  They ignored us ... the thousands and thousands of U.S. citizens who took to the streets to make our opposition clear.

      I still clearly remember Bush's statement on those huge protests:  Our views were "irrelevant."

      •  yackk, that was just "Old Europe" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        not internationally, where those ignorami demonstrated, don't you remember? Rumsfeld said it, so it must have been true.

        •  Oh, yes, that's right. (0+ / 0-)

          And I don't remember ANY of those alleged tens -- hundreds? -- of thousands of Americans who protested.  Just a small group of peacenik hippies, no doubt.

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