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View Diary: Colorado Magazine ban bill unenforceable (52 comments)

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  •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

    You think law enforcement doesn't have subpoena powers?  The ability to obtain search warrants?

    BTW, the government generally has the burden of proof in every criminal trial as to every element of the crime.

    "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

    by Old Left Good Left on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 03:03:17 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  You're still not getting how it works... (0+ / 0-)

      How is the DA/SA/Law Enforcement/Easter Bunny going to know where you got the magazine from?  Especially when theres no serialization on existing magazines?

      Guns can be traced because they're serialized... Find a hot Glock at a crime scene?  Glock will tell LE who (always a FFL or LE/Government agency) they sold it to.  FFLs keep a book of who they sold a firearm to for 20 years.  This is how a handgun can be traced to who the dealer sold it to.

      Magazines do not have this feature... there's no way once you identify the manufacturer of a magazine to know who they sold it to, or when.  Theres no exisitng laws which call for any system of uniform marking of magazines (which are essentially disposable items).  

      There's no way NOW for the State to prove you didnt' have the magazine prior to 1 July 2013 by looking at existing magazines, and unless all other states adopt magazine laws requiring new mags to be dated/serialized (and federal laws banning the import of foreign magazines).

      Considering the case load of the average SA/DA, do you really think they'll bother for a class 2 misdemeanor in the first place?

      •  Receipt? (0+ / 0-)

        Sales invoice? Testimony?  Box in the trash?

        Basically, you're a concern troll.

        "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

        by Old Left Good Left on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 05:06:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Name calling when the facts are against you... (0+ / 0-)

          I know your kind well.

          Sales invoice?
          -you need to know where I bought it, and if I don't self-incriminate, you can't find that out on your own. Theres no way to tie a given magazine to a given purchase.

          -You need to know where/who I bought it from to get testimony.  If I don't give you this, you have no way to find it on your own since magazines have no traceability on their own.

          Box in the trash?
          -explain to me, how you'll retroactively find my trash for a given day/week/month/year ago?  

          keep in mind that the penalty for somebody getting caught breaking the law is a class 2 misdemeanor!

          You keep ignoring two key facts:

          1) Theres no traceability of magazines now.  this law only codifies some way to trace magazines made in the future and only in Colorado (after Magpul leaves if they do as they claim, no magazines will be made in Colorado)

          2). Without self-incrimination, you have no other way for the state to meet the burden of proof, since the magazines themselves offer no way to let the state know when and whom have owned them and for how long.

          This isn't concern trolling, this is a matter of fact.

          •  Seriously? (0+ / 0-)

            I don't suppose your remedy for the alleged unenforceability is to strengthen it.  That's what makes you a concern troll.

            Your statement number 2 is just stupid.

            •  I suppose your wrong. (0+ / 0-)

              My remedy is, go whole hog, get on the record. stand for what you believe in, and try to and ban them all outright.  Thats the only thing that would make sense logically, if a new 30 round magazine is too dangerous, then so is an older one, period.  Stand and/or fall with your principles intact.

              A lesser solution (more likely to get votes), all magazines without a special, hard-to-forge engraving are banned.  This only grandfathered-in magazines are the ones that people submit to the state for special engraving, all others are banned.  Voila, problem solved, you can tell at a glance which magazines are grandfathered in and which aren't.  And if you serialize the engraving, you now have traceability.

              I don't like these ideas, and like I said, I don't live in Colorado, but if that was the law of my land I'd have to follow it.  I have to follow laws in Illinois I don't agree with, but I simply HAVE to until they get repealed or I move.  Thats life in a society that values the rule of law.

              Realistically, though, I don't think they had the votes for proposals like that.  And I don't like unenforceable, easy-to-circumvent laws because, again, they do absoultely NOTHING,

            •  As for statement number 2... (0+ / 0-)

              How is it just stupid?

              How can you trace a magazine, with no serial number, no stamped date, and 4 interchangeable parts (1 of which you'd replace every so often, two of which you'd replace easilly when they break or wear out)?

              How can you trace a magazine that you can buy from either another person, or a store, or online with no requirement for record keeping?

              If it's stupid, prove me wrong.  Show me how you can trace a part that nobody keeps track of, that hardly anyone bothers to stamp, and up until now you could buy anywhere from 10-15 bucks?

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