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View Diary: Breaking News: Mankind leaves the solar system Update w/ pics (202 comments)

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  •  I feel pretty certain that any civilization (10+ / 0-)

    that had the ability to retrieve Voyager and come here if they chose, would have already known for many years where we are located by our radio signals well before deciphering that disc.

    •  I don't (4+ / 0-)

      I don't disagree with you, it's just that I don't have a lot a faith in Man's ability to perceive and know.  We are so very very young as a species, it's completely plausible there are other dimensions of travel and energy transfer we're clueless about.

      I suspect if the day comes we'll be blindsided by a discovery technology that never occurred to us.

      [shrugs] How the hell would I know?  It's interesting, you could very well be correct. Peace be with you.

      •  I don't doubt that we are ignorant of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sneelock

        many possible technologies and aspects of reality, but I don't see how that negates my point.  It may well be that such a civilization may not use radio for communication and has some radically unfamiliar technology, but to do what you suggest would require a level of technology and knowledge of the Cosmos that would surely make that an irrelevant as an impediment.  Peace be with you as well.

      •  You're missing the point. (0+ / 0-)

        The point is that the radio signals we send out (deliberately or otherwise) are way faster than the physical objects we send out.  Therefore it's impossible for the Voyager to reach somewhere without that place having already been awash in our radio signals for a long time prior to that.  That's the claim.  I don't agree with the conclusion though because physical objects don't spread out and dissipate like radio does, so it's possible for the object to end up eventually reaching somewhere far enough away that it didn't notice our radio waves because our radio waves. while they did precede the craft, were too weak to be detected as relevant.

        Which is why it might be a good idea to project the path of the spacecraft long after we lose contact with it, and start beaming narrow beam signals ahead of it to star systems we know it will be going near.  That is, if contact is our goal.

        •  Theoretically you have a point (0+ / 0-)

          eventually I guess, but realize that 100k years from now Voyager I will still only have traveled roughly the equivalent to the distance to nearest star.  Again, it will still be in the cosmic driveway 100k years from now, if you will. Long before it can ever "end up eventually reaching somewhere far enough away that it didn't notice our radio waves," we will either be extinct or have the technology to go get it and put it in a museum.

    •  Yeah, any civilization that first surveyed solar (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bythesea, LordMike, rb608

      system to solar system, like we are, and then planet to planet, would have to had noticed all the stuff we put in orbit in the last 50 years.  Assuming, arguendo, that there is intelligent life out there, I don't think sending a note with directions would be the proximate cause of the colonization of the earth by really pissed off reptiles :).

      Also, will Voyager ever enter a nearby solar system?  Wouldn't that takes hundreds of years, if not longer?

      "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

      by auron renouille on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:05:24 PM PDT

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      •  I don't thinks it'expected to. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        auron renouille

        So basically any civilization discovering it would need to detect it and retrieve it from interstellar space.

        •  The sad fact is (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          auron renouille, bythesea, Rashaverak

          The probability is high that the first populated star system (other than Sol of course) that Voyager finally drifts into, (assuming it ever does reach one - the probability is higher that it won't), will be a system already populated BY humans from Earth.   The point is that this likelihood, as low as it may be, is still a lot higher than the probability of alien life finding it.

          "Already populated by humans from Earth?  What do you mean?  How is that possible?  It was the first object Earthlings sent out of the Solar System?"

          It may be the first object humans sent into deep space, but it's really really SLOOOOW compared to something with an engine technology of the sort we're proposing these days.  If we don't stupidly kill ourselves off, and we don't let the Tea Party sorts of people kill the human race's science knowledge and let it atrophy in a giant collapse of all civilization, then  anything else we launch in the future after Voyager will end up quickly overtaking Voyager.

          Even if we don't launch it for another few thousand years.

          It's going to take Voyager THAT long to get anywhere.

          If we do find the Voyager message our ancestors sent out to the stars... to ourselves... our historians will have to explain to us what the historical significance of this weird object is.  Because remembering that we sent it will be like a person today trying to remember the invention of the first chariot.  The knowledge will be THAT old.

          •  That's what I was wondering. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bythesea, Rashaverak

            It's certainly fascinating to hear about us getting readings from deep space, but I know that the distance to any adjacent solar system is massive.  I was guessing a century or so, given decades just to get out that far, and given that perhaps NASA developed a trajectory that might allow for steady increases in speed.  But thousands of years?  Damn, wow.

            "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

            by auron renouille on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:53:12 PM PDT

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            •  Well, it isn't aimed at any (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Rashaverak, auron renouille

              nearby system, and won't even pass near one for many thousands of years.  Sorry if you felt I was unresponsive.

              •  Nope, not unresponsive at all. :) (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bythesea

                Sorry, sometimes I kind of stand in dumb[struck] awe at things :).  This may have been one of those times.

                "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

                by auron renouille on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 02:12:21 PM PDT

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            •  The voyagers' trajectories were not based on (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              auron renouille, bythesea

              the goal of escaping the solar system.  The primary goal of their missions was to make observations of our local gas giants here in the solar system.  The fact that while we were at it we also had an opportunity, if we aimed the probes just right, to use those gas giants as gravity slingshots to fling the probes out of the sun's gravity well was just a nice added bonus to the primary mission.  So Carl Sagan pushed NASA to tack on a "hello we're humans and we look like this" plaque on the side... you know... just in case.

              But the trajectory doesn't really take it near any of our "local" neighboring stars.

              •  Voyager 1's final trajectory in particular (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                auron renouille

                Was determined by a desire to have one of the two probes take a close look at Saturn's moon Titan - that wasn't possible and have it slingshot to Uranus at the same time, the latter journey being left to its sister ship.

                Carl Sagan also pushed NASA to switch Voyager 1's cameras back on again for the last time and take the Family Portrait (which included the Pale Blue Dot image).

                Fake candidates nominated by the GOP for the recalls: 6 out of 7. Fake signatures on the recall petitions: 4 out of 1,860,283.

                by GeoffT on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 12:12:53 AM PDT

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    •  maybe they are ALREADY HERE!!! AAAUUUUUGHHHHHHHH (0+ / 0-)

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 06:44:03 AM PDT

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