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View Diary: The Historic "No" of Cyprus: History Repeats Itself (18 comments)

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  •  I don't get the whole thing. (5+ / 0-)

    If the problem is money laundering, fraud, tax evasion of large investors, why were small depositors targeted at all?  Was this just a way of tipping off the big investors, giving them the opportunity to get their money out?

    "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

    by Publius2008 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:27:18 AM PDT

    •  From your source: (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FG, Joieau, Just Bob, DRo

      Meanwhile Gazprom, the giant Russian energy company, has offered a private bailout plan, The New York Times reports. Rather than the hated tax on bank deposits, Cyprus could raise money to right its economy by selling Gazprom exploration rights to offshore gas deposits in the Mediterranean Sea.

      Gazprom refused to confirm it even made an offer. Gazprom already has vast gas deposits in Siberia. But the emergence of an independent gas industry in Cyprus could further undercut Gazprom’s monopoly pricing power in Europe, already threatened by the global gas glut from the American shale gas boom.

      Ownership of Cyprus’s promising though undeveloped reserves would keep potential competitors from obtaining them and ensure a supply of gas — and Gazprom’s continued power over Europe — for years.

      So this is better? Cyprus remains a cheap tax haven for the Russians and is completely subservient to them rather than the EU? It looks to me as if there are no good choices at this point.

      „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

      by translatorpro on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:33:18 AM PDT

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      •  Wrong (2+ / 0-)

        I'm not saying it's better or worse, but if the Russians come in with a deal that saves the island's banks, the depositors, and to exploit the island's gas and possible oil reserves with security against a Turkish threat, then please explain why Cyprus should decline and instead accept the austerity, haircuts, and suffering at the hands of the EU.

        If the Russians are making a better deal than the EU, it says a lot...not about the Russians, but about the "Europeans."

        As for money laundering and Cyprus, people need to stop their faux moralizing about the issue.  What do you think happens in Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, the Isle of Man, Gibraltar, the Cayman Islands, and the City of London Corporation?  If it's perfectly acceptable for those countries to accept dirty money, then I don't see where the double standard comes into play for Cyprus.

        •  And grabs all the island's natural resources. (0+ / 0-)

          I don't know what is better.

          •  Dilemma (0+ / 0-)

            If it wasn't Russia but some other country offering Cyprus the same deal, would you still be having this dilemma? Or is the problem just that it's the Russians?

            •  I don't have any problems with Russians. (0+ / 0-)

              So yeah, I would still have it.

              •  Well (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FG, happymisanthropy

                I would think then that your issue is with the country bring under the thumb of one power or another, which I understand.  Ideally, Cyprus (or Greece or Portugal or anybody) won't be under anyone's thumb.

                But let's look at reality: Cyprus already has British military bases on the island, which are not really part of Cypriot territory.  Over a third of the island remains occupied by Turkey.  The island's oil and gas deposits have already attracted the attention of the United States, of the Germans, the Russians, and yes, the Turks.  

                In this reality, Cyprus needs to make the best deal that it can for itself, for its people, for its well-being and survival and security.  If the EU can't offer such a deal, it should not be a surprise if Cyprus goes to the party that can offer such a deal.

                •  It will really depend on the details of the deal (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Gazprom may or may not offer. But oil and gas deposits are valuable. The question is not which company will develop them. Clearly, it will not be a local company. The question is what kind of terms this company will get. If Gazprom can use this situation to negotiate much more favorable terms than it would have been able to do otherwise, it will harm Cyprus in the long term.

                  I don't think it will really happen. I think Russia will offer better terms on the existing loan and maybe an additional loan in exchange for a promise not to tax bank deposits and possibly smth else. I doubt Cyprus will agree to let Gazprom get their gas without a tender.

        •  I wrote, and I quote (0+ / 0-)
          It looks to me as if there are no good choices at this point.
          I merely wanted to know what your reasoning was, as your euphoria about David (Cyprus) "beating back" Goliath (EU) seemed premature. Nothing has been solved yet, and the country is  between a rock and a hard place. Nothing more, nothing less. So what am I supposedly "wrong" about? I stated no opinion either way whatsoever. ::shrug::

          „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

          by translatorpro on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 03:36:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Helps to understand tragic Cyprus modern (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      history.  Another failed US Kissinger policy.  

      This is the best vid I have found to explain how Cyprus got to where it is today.

      It all began in 1974

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 09:04:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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