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  •  Really? Hyper-authoritarians on the left? Where? (9+ / 0-)

    Point me in their direction! Who on the left thinks the Soviet Union or Communist China is the model to emulate? Do tell!
    They've gotta have a website!

    (See, when you say shit like "looney left," we know you listen to Bill O'Reilly and don't know jack about the actual progressive movement.)

    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

    by rhetoricus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 05:24:37 PM PDT

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    •  here's a few: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, rhetoricus, varro

      Communist Party USA
      Revolutionary Communist Party
      Progressive Labor Party
      International Socialist Organization
      Socialist Workers Party
      Maoist Internationalist Movement
      Revolutionary Workers League
      Socialist Alternative
      US Marxist-Leninist Organization
      Workers World Party

      All of them are Maoist, Trotskyist, or Stalinist. They think the Soviet Union, or Communist China, or Communist Cuba, are a good model to emulate.  And all are authoritarian (many of them are essentially run by one person). And you can meet them at virtually any large protest in DC, New York, San Francisco, and most other places.

      Methinks you  don't know quite so much as you think you do . . . .

      PS--since I myself am a Marxist, it's not their marxism that I think makes them looney---it's their rigid doctrinaire centralist hyper-authoritarianism.

      •  Well, hell. (0+ / 0-)

        Maybe I don't know as much as I thought I did after all. I've worked on the left for a very long time and never met a defender of totalitarianism or violent overthrow. The furthest to the left I've encountered are folks who advocate Democratic Socialism as it's seen in Scandinavia today. Some may call themselves Marxists, but they believe Soviet Union and China betrayed Marxism.

        These you mentioned must have had their heyday a good while ago?

        If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

        by rhetoricus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 10:04:28 AM PDT

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        •  I don't know how you missed them---I run into them (0+ / 0-)

          all the time.  They were at every large Occupy rally I was ever at, and they are regulars at any decent-sized protest or demonstration in DC or New York or San Fran.

          These you mentioned must have had their heyday a good while ago?
          The entire progressive left in the US (such as it is) had its heyday a long time ago. Now most "liberals" are just Eisenhower Republicans who aren't old enough to have ever even SEEN a real political Left. (shrug)
        •  Leftist in the US (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dlemex

          are the conservatist everywhere else.

          •  that is very true (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rhetoricus

            If the people who yell and scream about "the radical left" in the US were to go overseas and see a REAL radical left, they'd shit their pants in terror.

            •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

              Must be why kos was SO annoyed with ANSWER's influence and control over the anti-Iraq invasion demonstrations.

              I missed these authoritarian guys probably because I haven't often lived in a big city, and when I have, I've been mostly confined within academic circles, where you have your self-proclaimed Marxists, but they're philosophers, not pro-authoritarian or pro-violence revolutionaries. Even edgy, wild, open events like Burning Man wouldn't be terribly welcoming to pro-authoritarians.

              I looked up those groups you mentioned and I almost had trouble believing they were real and not provocateur fronts. Creepy that it kind of gives credence to the FOX News "communio-fascist" conflations. Totalitarianism looks pretty much the same whatever flavor it comes in, doesn't it? I mean, the "communist" Soviets weren't exactly kinder and gentler than the WW2 fascists? Yeeks.

              It does seem like the right wing is looking to lump the entire progressive movement with the groups you mention.

              If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

              by rhetoricus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 01:40:55 PM PDT

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              •  this was my entire point: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                rhetoricus
                Totalitarianism looks pretty much the same whatever flavor it comes in, doesn't it?
                That is why the neocons had no trouble jumping from the Trots to the Birchers.  They share the same sort of authoritarian nuttiness. The looney right isn't very different from the looney left.

                An ironic example of that is Hitler's Nazis.  The official name of the Nazi Party is the "National Socialist German Workers Party".  Note the leftist name.  The Nazis were, in their early history, a weird conglomeration of both radical left AND radical right activists.  It wasn't until the Night of the Long Knives, when Rohm and his leftwing cohorts were all killed (in what was more a personal/factional power fight than a real ideological fight), that the Nazis became the rightwing party we know and hate today.

                It does seem like the right wing is looking to lump the entire progressive movement with the groups you mention.
                They've always done that.  Since the 1840's.  (shrug)
                •  It's helpful to be able to clarify that.. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  dlemex

                  centralized authoritarianism is the common thread, rather than trying to argue that "right" and "left" are opposites, so there is no value to the comparison.

                  This really illustrates how unhelpful, ultimately, the terms "right" and "left" are.

                  If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

                  by rhetoricus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 02:58:46 PM PDT

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