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  •  I recently saw a video of a Jewish (0+ / 0-)

    settler telling a group of Arab men that he had the right to plant seeds on their family's land because God gave the land to the Jews, and that when the Messiah comes back, these Arab men will be the slaves of the Jews.

    •  This settler is a fanatic (3+ / 0-)
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      Ojibwa, K S LaVida, Cassandra Waites

      and not representative of many other Israelis. The "god's law trumps man's law" justification for seizing others' land is ridiculous on its face and would not stand up in any legitimate civilian court, even Israel's. Unfortunately, the territories are still governed by military, not civilian law, and so Israel's legal system doesn't apply to them. It's quite pathetic and a primary cause of the strife. But don't take this nutjob's word as the final word of all Israelis.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sun Mar 24, 2013 at 09:37:10 PM PDT

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      •  I don't take this nutjob as the final word (1+ / 0-)
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        on all Israelis. However, right now the government of Israel with its constant land grabs seems to certainly be reflecting what this settler said and acting on it.

        •  It's a coalition government (1+ / 0-)
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          K S LaVida

          where a far-right minority party has for years been able to exploit disunity and apathy on the left to ally with religious parties to form a ruling coalition. Most Israelis don't like or want the settlements, but are too passive and in denial to do anything about it. Plus, many have been radicalized by the rockets into aligning with the far right, even though they know they're just as bad. It's really quite surreal, given how vibrant and hedonistic Israel proper is.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:28:07 AM PDT

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          •  I agree with that assessment. (0+ / 0-)

            The left in Israel had better get off their fannies because people are increasingly seeing what Israel is doing to the Palestinians and it is turing the tide of world opinion. Blame it on videos and mass communication, but Israel can no longer hide behind its massive US lobby or count on the goodwill of nations who support it.

            What a horrible mistake the world made when it advocated taking people's lands to create a new entity in the middle east.  The whole adventure of creating Israel was bound to backfire, but the cause of Israel's potential fall will be squarely on their heads if they don't cut out the arrogance.

            •  I agree with your first paragraph completely (1+ / 0-)
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              However the second one I don't entirely agree with. Sure, there is much land in Israel proper that was not acquired through what most people who say was lawful means. But there is much that was.

              The original core of what would become Israel was mostly lawfully acquired, even if sometimes through sneaky land purchases from the absentee Ottoman and Arab landlords of the lands in question who didn't really care what would happen to the Arab and Bedouin tenants living on them.

              I'm talking about the original pre-British Mandate era from the late 19th century through the end of WWI. Of course, it's undeniable that much of the land was stolen, or acquired through the "spoils of war" principle, especially during the 1948-9 war of independence.

              But that's ancient history that no one's about to reverse, no matter how much Hamas & Hezbollah claim otherwise, mostly for political reasons. At this point we're talking about post-67 borders and how that will be resolved. The pre-67 borders are pretty much frozen, other than land swaps in any final deal.

              I personally find the whole "Israel should never have been founded because it was founded on stolen land" argument to be not just academic, but strained, because this could be said of every country in the Americas, including, of course, the US, where native peoples continue to be robbed of their lands, yet few people are calling for it to be returned to them.

              I also believe that the 2-state solution is at best a mid-term one. In the long run there can only be one state, because the growing Arab population within Israel proper, and the economic non-viability of any proposed Palestine, make that inevitable, making Israel as a truly Jewish state a long-term impossibility. But in the end that will be to the benefit of both sides, even though it may also one day lead to a civil war and redivision, this time on more realistic lines.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 07:18:36 AM PDT

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      •  these nut jobs have been fed shit (1+ / 0-)
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        by the Christianists from our culture. A pox on all fundamentalists.

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 02:19:16 PM PDT

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