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View Diary: New Eurogroup Agreement On Cyprus Proves that Democracy Doesn't Matter (24 comments)

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  •  So much noise. (2+ / 0-)
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    johnny wurster, NeverThere

    You have cited the counterargument to your diary yourself.

    ... since the new laws passed by the Cypriot parliament gave the government new powers to resolve the country's banks.
    Well thanks to your elected representatives. Ask them how it came that
    ... the possibility of dipping in to Cypriot pension funds in order to partially fund the island's "bailout" ...
    was even on the table. So it took intervention from Merkel (!) to protect Cypriot pensioners against attempts to socialize losses? Do you not realize that this cuts the ground from under all your pathos?

    Do you not read your own cites? Like:

    Iceland followed a radically different path, ... it thus let banks go bankrupt, shifting the costs on to shareholders, bondholders and depositors abroad. Iceland looked after small depositors, but also allowed its currency to devalue and applied capital controls. ...
    In the Iceland case, the depositors (Dutch and British citizens) took a 100% haircut, and had no 100K guarantee whatsoever. It was the Dutch and British governments i. e. public money who bailed them out. So, Iceland did far worse to bank depositors than is even now on the table in Cyprus.  And you cite that as an example how?

    Overall, it is exactly the common, less wealthy cypriots that can be content with this deal - the more so as the costs are being progressively shifted to the more wealthy deposit holders.

    The wealthy are going to lose here, painfully. Is that what you protest against?

    •  Unfortunately, even the apparent contradictions (4+ / 0-)

      are not as simple as you might think.

      Everyone is going to suffer, not just the wealthy and not just the little folks. Who does the paying becomes irrelevant because none of this addresses the fundamental problem which is our self-fabricated economic "system" that serves the few at the expense of the many.

      The examples of elected officials anywhere actually doing anything other than what their sponsors, not their electors, want are few and far between. If governments truly acted in the interests of their citizens, there would be fewer problems, to be sure.

      We know that there has been massive wrong-doing, but it's was never discussed anywhere except Iceland (which is the real relevance of the Iceland example) and it is not going to be addressed here. In other words, those who are factually responsible will not be called to account.

      None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

      by achronon on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 01:01:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's you again (0+ / 0-)

      And you're wrong again.

      1. Merkel's words mean nothing.  I mentioned that in my article, but you conveniently failed to quote that part of what I wrote.  Merkel could have promised not to touch pension funds now.  Who is to say she and the IMF wont do so in 3 or 6 months?  If we take Greece as an example, every set of austerity measures that has been passed since 2010 has been the "final set of measures" that would be necessary.  Each time, "no new cuts" were promised, by Greek and EU officials alike.  In July 2011, for instance, Venizelos (then the VP of the Greek government) stated categorically that there will be no "solidarity tax" levied on people's electricity bills.  In September of that same year, Venizelos himself announced the urgent need to implement just such a tax.

      Their words are meaningless and should not be believed.  Anything that was not cut now is not safe from future cuts.  To believe otherwise is to be incredibly naive or stupid.

      2. Thanks to our elected representatives?  It seems that the members of parliament in Cyprus voted for one thing and received another, thanks to typical EU lies and blackmail.  Just like the Greek politicians promised one thing to the voters, then turned around and did another.

      "Democracy" is increasingly facing a severe crisis of legitimacy.  Politicians can lie outright, but they remain firmly in their positions for 4+ years with no consequence.  Politicians can also be lied to, by unelected technocrats and by politicians from other bully nations, with no consequences to those who have lied.

      3. In Iceland, foreign depositors lost their money.  Domestic depositors, however, were saved entirely.  That's because the government there looked after its own people, its electorate, first and foremost.  Imagine that!  The foreigners took a risk investing in another country and they lost.  Iceland didn't force the Dutch and British governments to bail those depositors out--it was a decision of those governments.  There was no law that required those governments to bail out their depositors for money they had stashed away in Iceland.  

      4. Yes, I do protest against this "solution" because it is not just the "wealthy" and the "tax cheats" and the "Russians" that are being hurt.  The hardworking Cypriot who, through sweat and effort, built a successful business and did the "right" thing by putting money aside, is going to get punished for the mistakes and the actions of others.  How is that in any way justifiable?  Because Merkel and the EU and IMF bullies dictate that it is?  Yes, it is a good thing that the small depositors were not affected--for now.  Who is to guarantee that they won't be affected in a few months, when Cyprus, like Greece, finds that the numbers in the EU's "bailout" recipe don't add up?

      EU apologists like yourself are sickening, and are very much a part of the problem.

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