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View Diary: Diane Ravitch calls it "the most brilliant post of the day" (147 comments)

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  •  Ah Manhattan Man! (5+ / 0-)

    Wondered how long it would take for you to show up! Hi!

    We ARE doing what we can given the insane "rules" of the current and former administrations. Now there are more of them. This is exactly what we dont need.

    I see you are not responding for Free College solution. Interesting. You choose to go to reducio ad absurdum. Excellent. But you are becoming a one-trick pony, I am afraid.

    Education, whether you see it or not, is political. It exists within politics, and yet was mostly insulated from politics over the last 100 years or so until the Reich Wing decided it should be an issue of Govmint Spending about 1985. (A Nation at Risk) Until we get back to consensus based on expert knowledge (teachers) we will flounder. That means, protect your teachers. They are the best resource we have right now to turn this around, if things are as bad as you say, and they are not good, but not as catastrophic as you say things are.  

    Help us to communicate out WHAT WORKS instead of running your freshman logic problems on every post. It is not helping, because we all sense these arguments are not in good faith. They serve some personal agenda, which you will not reveal. (ego? Think tank? Spurned reformer? gadabout? childhood trauma? I cannot figure it out yet..)

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 03:09:44 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Free college for All is not the answer. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Linda Wood

      As you point out, some kids are unprepared because of their home situations.

      Sending them to college unprepared will not change those situations.

      We will just be spending more money on tougher classes that they aren't prepared for.

      Why should we pay to teach Algebra to the 20-year-old, when we could not teach it to the 14-year-old? Do you think something magical will happen in those six years?

      •  Have you ever heard of "growing up"? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        historys mysteries

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 05:33:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  tough question, to be honest (3+ / 0-)

        remedial classes are a money maker for schools. get rid of them. college should be free; kids who can't make the grade should probably do something else; most jobs don't require a degree. let's have better career training at the high school level, along with strong academics. It is done in Germany, it can be done here. This may come as a shock to folks here but a lot of kids don't want to go to college and only do so for lack of any better direction. Most take a few classes and drop out. i say this after 25 years in the schools. i also talk to the janiotrs, maintenance people, UPS drivers and Coke machine vendors. All of them flatly tell me they didn't want to go to college and really had no use even for high school; folks who can wire a building and explain how the boiler can blow the fucking building up, and how you prevent that, often struggled in our high schools which ridiculously continue to emphasize college prep. I know a brilliant technician who operates and fixes boilers, HVAC, plumbing, complex electrical systems, cars, small engines, you name it. He failed remedial algebra at community college, and can't write coherently. Don't tell me the guy isn't smart; his son has a tested IQ of 138 and as the experts tell us, IQ is largely inherited. The son almost failed out of HS. We sadly measure but two things in children; grades and athletics. We're missing the vast majority.

        •  Diversify the skills, styles and assessments (2+ / 0-)

          of learning. Thats what its all about. Even taking two or three college classes during an ADULT lifetime can change a person profoundly, since they are often "ready" later on anyway.

          We dont have to assess the same ways. That is the issue with "standards" We dont have to teach in the same way. Orwell had some pretty pithy things to say about plumbing, and many other "classics" or just good lit speak to a whole range of topics important to the common guy, as well as hydraulics, steam, math for understanding, and psychology.

          This all costs research money and time and funding of course. That is what the Reich Wing hates. Developing people from where they ARE to where they CAN go.

          My great grandfather was a saddlemaker in Germany before WW1. He was not college educated. He became a Union Leader in the Social Democrats movement, and after WW1 ended with the exile of the Kaiser, was asked to form the government. He became Chancellor, then President of the first Republic in Germany, and he had no education past high school. Remarkable. But, perhaps, if he had some experience with economics, literature and psychology to combine with his worldly experience, things might have gone better. I am only saying that there is no one to one correspondence between talent and education, but if talent HAS access to education, one can see how events can be shaped. Having or not having education is not DETERMANATIVE. It is FORMATIVE for every individual.

          I stand by my free college access for everyone.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 07:35:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, something magical DOES happen (0+ / 0-)

        to people in their early 20s. Some people never grow up, however.

        Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

        by OregonOak on Mon Mar 25, 2013 at 07:37:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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