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View Diary: Mark Kelly Denied 2nd Amendment Rights! (75 comments)

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  •  Local story here - (5+ / 0-)

    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

    by Azazello on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 07:19:19 AM PDT

    •  Thanks (4+ / 0-)

      But even that time line of their post follows the hours the FOX had it up, though now others are posting.

      That's one of the things I caught, like it was a set, he decided to do this, or someone did, and the exclusive goes to fox speak so the herd can quickly come up with whatever they could to justify, then start parroting, the total hypocrisy, apparently wingnut think tanks don't have workers at night!!

      "If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

      by jimstaro on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 07:50:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was disgusting to see CNN quoting (5+ / 0-)

        "Gotcha" assertions from Breitbart.com and asking Mark Kelly to respond, as if Breitbart.com was a credible source of truth - and as if Mark Kelly was some how "caught" doing something worth of public ridicule or shame.

        CNN is getting more and more pathetic.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 07:59:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is a corollary to my usual rant (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Neuroptimalian

          About criminals getting caught providing false information on ATF form 4473 (which is a felony) and nobody doing a damned things about it.

          This time it wasn't a criminal, it was a successful Naval officer (flag grade) and NASA Astronaut.  This time, it's a 'good guy'.

          This time, the 'good guy' filled out misleading information likely question 11a .

          IF mark answered 11a the way he usually does (when a buyer is buying the firearm for himself but makes a public statement that he had no intention of keeping the rifle, he was going to give it to the local Police Department, he's just committed a felony.

          This is really a silly, stupid situation Mark Kelly got himself into.  It looks like he got caught in a lie (either buying the rifle for himself but realizing it made him look like a hypocrite, or buying the rifle for a stunt and filling out misleading information on ATF from 4473 because he's used to buying firarms for himself, not for a 3rd party).

          •  Show me where it's a crime to buy a firearm (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ColoTim, jimstaro, a2nite

            for your own personal use (your own reasons) and then gift it to someone who is legally permitted to own guns.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 09:13:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If Capt. Kelly would have kept his mouth shut (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neuroptimalian

              until he took possession of the firearm, there would be no issue. Under current law, he could have taken possession, then gifted it to whomever he wants.  this bring us to two issues:

              1). isn't the whole push behind universal background checks, something that I back, supposed to address private sale/transfer of firearms?

              2). Prisons are full of people, innocent or not, who talked their way into a sentence.

              I don't have any issues with him buying a firearm, he's legally entitled to one. I think he got caught in a situation that while completely benign, looks terribly politically incorrect at a time when he's trying to build political legitimacy though his new gun control organization and the democratic party in general, and he let himself talk his way into a problem.

          •  It would be helpful to see this form with (0+ / 0-)

            question 11a, along with how he answered it.  That would help us make up our minds about whether he answered truthfully or not.  At this point, I'm still inclined to say that whatever he does with the gun, except something illegal like threatening people or shooting it at people, is still perfectly legal.  If he wants to use it as a prop, he can.  If he wants it for self-protection, he can.  If he wants to use it to demonstrate how easy it is to buy the gun, I think he's allowed to do that as well, along with disposing of it however he wants to, within the law.  

            I hope he doesn't just give it to the police, because I think they'd be obligated to resell it and Ted Nugent would be lining up to buy that.

            •  question 11a is a yes/no question. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ColoTim, Neuroptimalian

              if you answer yes, you are answering on the form that you are buying the firearm for yourself.  If you answer no, the dealer can not release the firearm to you.

              What Capt/ Kelly did, was answer 11a (either yes/no) then issue a public statement that he had intended to buy it for the Tuscon PD all along.  

              That is what incriminated his 11a answer.  If he gives a statement that he intended all along to give it away (to anyone) and answered yes, he's breaking the law.  If he answers 11a "no" he's not getting the firearm at all.

              By the way, the police are not obligated to sell any firearms turned in.  They're all "destroyed".  If they did resell firearms, these gun buy-back programs would be a huge profit opportunity for local law enforcement, most of which could use the funds.

            •   (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              a2nite

              Here is what is asked on Form 4473, Question 11.

              It's a real stretch to construe Mark Kelly's statements that when his research is finished he plans to turn the firearm into the Tuscon Police Department.

              11. Aliens Illegally or Unlawfully in the United States: This prohibited person category includes any person who unlawfully entered the United States or who illegally remains in the United States after his or her authorized period of stay has expired.

              11a. Nonimmigrant Aliens: A nonimmigrant alien is an alien who is lawfully in the United States on a temporary basis for purposes of travel, business, study, etc. The term does NOT include a permanent resident alien (someone who possesses a “green card.”) A nonimmigrant alien may only purchase or receive a firearm if he or she: (a) was admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or presents a valid hunting license or permit issued by a State; (b) qualifies as a foreign diplomat, official, or law enforcement officer as defined at 18 U.S.C. § 922(y)(2); or (c) has received a waiver of the prohibition from the Attorney General.

              Questions for the potential buyer of a firearm on Form 4473-Part I

              Form 4473-part I http://www.atf.gov/...

              In addition to their name, address, and other identity information a potential buyer is asked the following Yes/No questions.

              11a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: you are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See instructions for questions 11.a) Exception: if you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a and in the proceed to question 11.b.

              11b. Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year? (See instructions for questions 11.b)

              11c. have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence under probation? (See instructions for questions 11.c)

              11d. Are you a fugitive from justice?

              11e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

              11f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective ( which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others were incompetent to manage your affairs) OR  have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See instructions for questions 11.f)

              11g. Have you ever been discharged from the armed forces under dishonorable conditions?

              11h. Are you subject to a court order restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner? (See instructions for questions 11.h)

              11i. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?

              11j. Have you ever renounced your United States citizenship? (If no, proceed to question 13.)

              11k. Are you an alien illegally in the United States?

              11l. Are you an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa? (See instructions for questions 11.l)

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 12:45:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ...Mark Kelly's statements [as a lie. When...] (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                a2nite

                It's a real stretch to construe Mark Kelly's statements that when his research is finished he plans to turn the firearm into the Tuscon Police Department.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 12:46:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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