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View Diary: Book review: David Neiwert's 'And Hell Followed With Her' (240 comments)

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  •  I remember listening to the 911 call on NPR (8+ / 0-)

    who did a segment on it.

    How Gina Gonzalez had the presence of mind, after being shot multiple times, her husband and one of her kids dead, for all she know both of her kids dead, she goes out in the kitchen, gets their handgun, and shoots the returning murderers, I just don't know.

    Ordinary people can rise to heights of unbelievable bravery when faced with impossible situations.

    It's also a very good example of a defensive gun use because everyone understands that without that gun in the kitchen Gina would very likely not be alive to tell the tale and her husbands kilers might have gotten away with it.

    How big is your personal carbon footprint?

    by ban nock on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:08:29 AM PDT

    •  Yes, Gonzalez was truly heroic (9+ / 0-)

      Talk about keeping your head together under impossible circumstances ... the dispatcher too, was amazing.

    •  The various "accidental" shootings featured on (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lyvwyr101, JerryNA, Smoh

      GunFAIL need to be taken into account in determining the merits of a decision to keep a loaded firearm on one's house.

      You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

      by Cartoon Peril on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:33:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I never go into those posts anymore (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ER Doc

        reading people making jokes about the deaths of little kids is beyond the pale. After I said something on one the diarist stopped joking himself, but I imagine it still goes on in comments.

        Thankfully accidental firearm fatalities continue their steep decline, but any death is one too  many. I only wish parents were as careful with water. http://familiesafield.org/...

        How big is your personal carbon footprint?

        by ban nock on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:54:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Plenty of grown up fools have "accidentally" (0+ / 0-)

          shot themselves or others while cleaning their guns or what have you.

          You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

          by Cartoon Peril on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 10:42:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Carelessness or poor habits, I won't criticize (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cartoon Peril, ER Doc

            so to not jinx myself.

            592 altogether in 08 (by my chart)
            The next one higher was machinery at 693 which is close to home, an old friend's husband dropped a 100 gallon water tank (full) on his chest from the bucket on his tractor this year and broke most of his ribs, punctured lungs, broke a leg, and spent a total of 98 days in the ICU, but made it, at the young age of 64.

            1400 from natural/environmental which would be heat stroke, or freezing or getting eaten by bears I guess. Interesting that choking is up, the elderly maybe?

            I have an interest in preventing accidents from years working out of helicopters and also technical climbing. Often thoughtful habits can push the odds considerably in your favor.

            How big is your personal carbon footprint?

            by ban nock on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 11:00:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  "I imagine." (0+ / 0-)

          And we finally get to why you've really removed yourself from the discussion.

          I knew it would come out eventually.

    •  Some quibbles... (0+ / 0-)

      Did you catch the line about the people attacked being marijuana dealers?  The gun in the home arguably wasn't for family defense so much as illegal business defense.  I can't argue with your characterization of the bravery of Mrs. Gonzalez, but I cannot cast her in the role of 'hero' either.  No matter what my stance is on legalizing marijuana, it's sale is currently illegal in Arizona.  The vigilante killers were 100% wrong, but no one can call the whole family as totally innocent victims.  Yes, the post shows a picture of the young girl, but don't make the mistake of painting halos on all of the adults.  Illegal drug sales is a criminal enterprise, dangerous and potentially violent, even if this particular instance was glossed over as "locally accepted".

      I would also like to point out that this raid by vigilantes was totally illegal, but a similar raid by police in paramilitary gear with a no-knock warrant might have been totally legal, even if it resulted in the same deaths.  Our society would have tolerated the morally reprehensible in that situation over the physically (not legally) nearly identical situation depicted above.  We need to roll back the militarization of our police, eliminate civil forfeiture, drastically rein in no-knock warrants, and repeal this so-called war on drugs (which is a total failure).

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