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  •  Too many here like to confuse eliminating the cap, (4+ / 0-)

    or raising it w/turning SS into a welfare system.  

    They refuse to consider that all productivity over the past thirty years has gone to the corporate kleptomaniacs and  depressed wages so that wages have not increased.  

    Some of these same people call those of us who point this out "whiners".  In fact they are ignorant to the realities of real workers stolen productivity/intellectual contributions to the klepto's who steal everything they can and then tell us by raising or eliminating the cap on SS contributions it would turn SS into a welfare system. Using that perverse logic all pay for work is welfare.

    "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

    by BrianParker14 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 09:30:19 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  You're distorting (0+ / 0-)

      I am one of those people. But of course I don't "refuse to consider that all productivity has gone to the corporate kleptomaniacs..." - nor do most people who agree with me on this.

      I want to see income taxes raised on the rich. INCOME taxes. ESTATE taxes. And I want Social Security to remain a pension system funded by workers and not become a redistribution system.

      You can disagree with people without distorting their positions.  I doubt very much if you can point to any actual people around here who are ignorant of stolen worker productivity or the fact that we live in a kleptocracy. We just disagree about the best way to structure social insurance programs.

      We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

      by denise b on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 10:44:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One way (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NoMoreLies, Dallasdoc

        of returning our stolen productivity/intellect would be by removing the cap on SS.

        Wages aren't welfare. But they are a "redistribution system". The kleptomaniacs collect the income from our labor/intellect and decide how much to redistribute to the worker and how much they keep. Currently it's sometimes as much as five hundred to one. Till the early seventies it was a more modest twenty-five or thirty to one. So, there's an enormous amount being taken from workers and the gov't doesn't deserve it through taxes, the workers deserve it. That's absolutely logical and reasonable. It shouldn't got to the gobermint, it should go to us the people who created the labor/intellect.

        One way of having them return some of that stolen productivity is through elimination of the SS cap and that isn't welfare.

        How would having the wealthy pay more into SS (w/o them taking a proportionate amount out as they do from our labor/intellect) not be the opposite of what they've done to our work efforts. Just a delayed return of what they've stolen from us, not welfare.

        Money is fungible. Call it wages, welfare, productivity rewards, capital gains, bonus, incentive or SS.  Call it whatever you like but it's all a reflection of workers efforts and intellect. Most of those words are just a means of avoiding taxes and putting the burden on the worker and keeping as much of our labors/intellect for themselves.  But having them put some of it back into SS w/o them taking out even more is only a different way of saying they owe it to us for having stolen it over the past thirty years.  It would in no way be turning SS into a welfare system. And if they want to call it that, then we should be able to apply some words to their stealing our labor/intellect.
        They've busted the Defined Benefit system, they sold us a corrupt Defined Contribution system and we just said woe is us. Now they've convinced many that they shouldn't contribute more to SS and take out less because that would make it a welfare system. They're great w/creating words that distort while they steal from us.
        They've so distorted the English language we don't know which side is up.  Please don't defend their distortions. Tell them they owe us our productivity which they've stolen and SS is one way to return it.  Increasing taxes on the rich does not return our work efforts.
        Making them put it back, through SS, does return it to us and doesn't make it a welfare program. It only becomes a welfare program if we allow them to call it that. We need to be more clever w/words.  But I still want my productivity back that for the past thirty years has been appropriated by the wealthy and SS is the way to do it.

        "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

        by BrianParker14 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 11:42:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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