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View Diary: Key Democratic donors ante up, pushing party left (70 comments)

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  •  ugh... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TracieLynn
    It may be easy for Democrats to ignore a bunch of screaming activists.
    Feeding into a 40 year old stereotype. These days they're called the base. And when they're ignored by Democrats we have elections like 1994, 2000 and 2010.
    •  There is a good chance this election will look (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Patrick Costighan

      like 1994.
      After all, today there is far less support for gun control  than in 1994.

      Public support for gun control is waning the more it is talked about.

      And all this results in Obama being less trusted on this issue than the least popular congress in history.

      Think about that....one of the most charismatic presidents in recent history is absolutely getting his clock cleaned by the GOP congress.

      There is a reason why the Dems haven't touched this for 20 years.
      Unsurprisingly, taking liberties from innocent Americans, makes them less likely to vote for those that are trying to take them.

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 01:02:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nobody is talking about anybody 'taking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TracieLynn, Miggles

        liberties from innocent Americans', except, of course, certain gun rights advocates when they bring up the straw man in the first place, as you have.

        Confiscation is not, nor has it been, on the table, and neither has plenary restriction. This "taking liberties from innocent Americans" meme is entirely a fiction dreamed up by people who love guns and the right to own guns more than they value the rights of individuals to live in a peaceful, free, and safe as possible society.

        •  No? You may want to check your own words.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Patrick Costighan

          "and the RIGHT to own guns....."
          It is a right....a right and a liberty that some want to infringe upon  for their own feelings of perceived security.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 03:48:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The word "right" does not mean complete, perfect (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TracieLynn

            and unfettered access to every armament.

            There is a lot of space between the argument you're making--that individuals have the right to own any arm they desire--and the strawman you're throwing up--that somebody wants to prevent individuals from owning any arms of any sort.

            Implementing restrictions on quantity and kind, erecting "reasonable" barriers to access (such as background checks) and similar gun control measures are neither: a) attempting to prevent any ownership of any weapons nor b) an infringement of anybody's liberty in any sense of the word.

            This debate would be much better and more productive if your side would stop using dishonest, hyperbolic rhetoric.

            •  There isn't currently 'complete perfect and (0+ / 0-)

              unfettered access'.

              "the strawman you're throwing up--that somebody wants to prevent individuals from owning any arms of any sort."
              I never claimed that.....so there is a strawman here, but it isn't I whom made nor are using it.

              "attempting to prevent any ownership"
              Just attempting to BAN guns.

              "infringement of anybody's liberty in any sense of the word"
              It is in every sense of the word....
              "Liberty--NOUN:
                      1)a) The condition of being free from restriction or control.
                          b) The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
                      2) Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
                      3) A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights. "

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 04:46:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You should start proofreading your comments for (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Glen The Plumber

                logic errors before you post.

                You claim you aren't making the argument that a total ban on guns is under consideration and then in the very next statement make exactly that argument.

                Then you go on to quote a dictionary definition of "liberty" that supports my point, not yours.

                When you are able to make a coherent argument that is at least nominally free of obvious errors in reasoning I might take you more seriously.

                •  You should work on your reading comprehension (0+ / 0-)

                  I never claimed a "total ban".
                  However, if you don't think there is a proposed  'ban' then I suggest you learn what the "B" in "AWB" stands for.
                  "Dictionary"
                  How, exactly, does a definition that mentions "control" three times as being contrary to "liberty" support your assertion of "gun control" not being an infringement upon "liberty".

                  This is simple English. As I do not have my English-to-JustinB dictionary handy, why don't we just stick to the actual definitions of words?

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 09:44:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The definitions of words are heavily colored (0+ / 0-)

                    by context. This is another point which continues to elude you. As a result, you continue to spew gibberish, erect strawmen, and think of yourself as being oh-so-clever in the process.

                    •  "Erect strawmen" (0+ / 0-)

                      So says someone whom wrongly attributed words both to me & to the dictionary.

                      Did you find the dictionary definition to be "heavily colored by implication" as well? Did you find it to be "gibberish"?

                      Words have meanings, friend. Don't (wrongly) attribute logical fallacies to me (and the dictionary) for your reading mistakes.

                      It's not "gibberish", pal. It's English.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 02:49:55 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

        And gun ownership has returned to 1993 levels.

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 04:22:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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