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View Diary: Obama issues Executive Order to investigate voter suppression (212 comments)

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  •  Again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GoGoGoEverton

    1. Is there any evidence that he was involved with Ohio?  (And even if he was, is it more than "he advanced an argument which was rejected"?)
    2. Did SBVFT break the law in any way?  Yes, they advanced partisan goals with which we disagree, but ... he's a Republican! He's going to support Republicans!

    •  Oh please (11+ / 0-)

      He was advising the Romney campaign on legal matters when it pushed that absurd claim.  Did he speak out against it?  And just because the SBVFT didn't do anything illegal, that doesn't mean it's not a disqualifier for someone considered to chair a voting rights commission.

      He was an adviser to the Prosser campaign in WI, when those 7000 votes were "found" by the sketchy county voting supervisor.   How many campaigns does he have to associate hiimself with that demonstrate such dishonest tactics before we come to believe he's not an hones player?

      There's also this speech at Duke in 2006, which contains this little gem:

      A quick note on perhaps the most interesting issue that came up [during Bush v. Gore] as we dealt with it, and that was Equal Protection . … Now, just like really with the Voting Rights Act, Republicans have some fundamental philosophical difficulties with the whole notion of Equal Protection.

      Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

      by Dallasdoc on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 07:25:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, please. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GoGoGoEverton

        That is guilt by association, both with OH and WI.  Romney had thousands of lawyers, and if they were organized anything like how we were in PA, each state had significant autonomy.  On WI, all you have is "his campaign benefited." So what?

        As to that Duke speech, you do cut him off there before the end:

        . And in this case we decided nonetheless to begin filing the complaints based on Equal Protection. I was defeated in the Florida district court down in Miami early on, it went up to the 11th circuit, it sort of hung around there, it reemerged as an issue in the Florida Supreme Court cases, uh, which is what ultimately went up to the U.S. Supreme Court and at the end of the day there was a 7-2 majority of the US Supreme Court to find Equal Protection violations in the Bush vs. Gore case. The justices split on the remedy 5-4 but there was a 7-2 majority for the notion that you needed to do something about the Equal Protection violations in Florida. Of course, Bush vs. Gore is probably the most notorious of all the election violation cases that went up to the Supreme Court.
        •  So as a Republican... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zinger99, Cynic in seattle, BYw

          ... he has a problem with Equal Protection, but he doesn't mind using it to win a case.  A very lawyerly thing to do, but again, is that the sort of person we want heading a commission to ensure voting rights?

          Maybe you do, but I'd like to see better.

          Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

          by Dallasdoc on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 08:03:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then it wouldn't be bipartisan, probably. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GoGoGoEverton

            And therefore, none of its recommendations would go anywhere.

            •  It can be bipartisan without elevating bad actors (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zinger99, Dallasdoc, lostinamerica, BYw

              Surely there are Republicans somewhere who haven't been on the forefront of developing and promoting voter suppression strategies.  The GOP is pretty corrupt these days, but they do still have a few outliers.

              I truly don't understand Obama (and his supporters) proclivities for self-sabotage with every project or program they undertake.  There isn't a single effort they've undertaken that didn't involve some person, some agenda item that didn't completely undermine their stated goals.

              It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

              by Betty Pinson on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 08:59:29 AM PDT

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              •  Again, guilt by association (0+ / 0-)

                Name one "voter suppression strategy" with which Ginsberg was involved.

                •  Pressuring Ohio (0+ / 0-)

                  on early voting.  I live here, so I know.  Illegal or no it was unethical to say the least.

                  Anyone who lies like he did on the SBVT is a scumbag of the highest order, not someone to be taken seriously or given a position of responsibility.  

                  Hey, its only fair. If you choose to base your professional reputation on dishonesty and dirty tricks, you shouldn't be surprised that you'll miss out on opportunities reserved for honest, professional people.  You can't have both. You're either someone who can be trusted and respected or you can play dirty and cash in.  

                  Commissions to review serious issues like voting rights are reserved for respectable, trustworthy people, not rogue actors.  But, hey, there's nothing to stop the scumbags from expressing their opinions or providing input via the news media, on a blog or by writing a letter or submitting testimony to the Commission.

                  It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                  by Betty Pinson on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 10:00:08 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The Romney campaign was. (0+ / 0-)

                    I haven't seen an article that claimed that he was, as opposed to whoever their Ohio lawyers were.

                    We differ on what a lawyer's obligations to a client are, and what client actions are attributable back.

                    •  He's a dirty, crooked man (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Dallasdoc, lostinamerica

                      His CV is littered with evidence.  

                      Have some self-respect and hold yourself to a higher standard than unethical, base people like Ginsberg.  Democrats are supposed to be better than GOP dirty tricksters and ratfuckers.  

                      Don't drag our party into the gutter by associating with these people. Too many Democrats (myself included) have worked our asses off to make it a reputable organization.  Show some respect and appreciation for your fellow Democrats and keep our party on the high road.  Don't wallow in GoP filth.

                      It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

                      by Betty Pinson on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 10:45:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  The Florida 2000 recount (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lostinamerica

                  I think we can all agree that a complete recount would have declared Gore the winner.  Ginsberg was one of the main drivers of the Bush  campaign's squelching of that recount.  Does that meet your standard for a voter suppression strategy, stealing a presidential election?

                  Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

                  by Dallasdoc on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 11:35:05 AM PDT

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                  •  I think of voter suppression as ex ante, not post (0+ / 0-)

                    But we can certainly agree that we thought the results were bad.

                    •  I understand your point (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      lostinamerica, Zinman

                      ... but in my non-legal opinion, disenfranchising a majority of the nation's voters by stealing a presidential election is voter suppression too, of a scale I don't recall seeing in this country in its history.

                      Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

                      by Dallasdoc on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 12:05:03 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  a few points (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Adam B

                        First, I looked into the Florida situation at the time. Whether Gore would have won depended on the standard used to judge ballots.  In some, but not all, of the standards, Gore would have won.

                        Second, I would expect someone like Ginsberg to pursue a particular legal avenue to benefit the Republicans.  After all, he is on that side.

                        That makes him partisan but not necessarily evil or dishonest.

                        I am not saying that he should be on the commission, just that him fighting to win Florida does not rule him out from my perspective.

                        Of course, there may be other dirt on him

                        Blake: I am an enemy of the Federation but it is corrupt and oppressive. I will destroy it if I can

                        by GideonAB on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 04:30:00 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry, Adam, but Ginsberg was a public face of (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zinger99, lostinamerica, Zinman

      the Bush administration's vile, dishonest actions.  He's is simply a liar.  If lying is ok as long as you're advancing a partisan goal, then I suppose he's a fine choice.

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 07:49:20 AM PDT

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    •  SBVFT was a highly unethical, dishonest vendetta (7+ / 0-)

      against Sen. John Kerry.  

      Yes, they lied, yes they told horrible falsehoods about the military record of a respected Democrat running for POTUS.

      No, there's nothing good, honorable or professional about that kind of activity.  

      There's no reason to reward or even respect political operatives who make money engaging in those kinds of smear campaigns.

      I'm shocked that any Democrat would try to defend such a deplorable political operative.

      It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

      by Betty Pinson on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 08:39:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, there was (5+ / 0-)

      He tried to pressure the state to suppress voting by mail.

      It doesn't matter if his activities barely skirted the law, endorsing voter suppression activities by elevating this man and his unethical schemes  is wrong.

      What kind of message is the WH sending by promoting him to a powerful seat?  Are they saying they support voter suppression?  It certainly appears that way.

      If they're trying to imitate FDR by making crooks reveal secrets and write regulations to fight criminal activities (as he did with his own version of finreg) Obama's out of his league on that one.   He's never demonstrated the ability to successfully use such a strategy because he allows the crooks to do as they wish.  He provides no direction or oversight.

      It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them. FDR

      by Betty Pinson on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 08:54:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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