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  •  I Like Your Plan (5+ / 0-)

    But I'd also like to get average wages up a few pennies. They've been down, but worker productivity is up. All that money has been going to profits. Maybe a little could be siphoned off to keep the country working.

    Thanks for your comment!

    •  That's the absolute crux of all the SS problems! (7+ / 0-)

      All productivity has been stolen over the past thirty years.  Corporate kleptomaniacs have kept all productivity gains. They now make as much as five hundred times as much as their workers.  If wages had only kept up a little w/productivity SS would be in fine shape.

      My plan:

      Remove the cap on SS contributions from the wealthy while capping their benefits.
      This would be a direct return of our stolen productivity.
      Call it RSP - Return of Stolen Productivity.

      Some here can't deal w/capping benefits for the wealthy because they consider that to be  an opening for the wealthy to call SS a welfare program.  At that point it becomes a war of definitions. Return of Stolen Productivity or a welfare program.

      Corporate masters need some constraints w/o the workers feeling as though we will get them angry at us.

      "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

      by BrianParker14 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 09:58:07 PM PDT

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      •  I See (0+ / 0-)

        I know, but I'm not in favor of lifting the cap or capping their benefits. For one thing, they outnumber us in Congress. So, changing this is not all that easy.

        Instead, I want to see the employer contribution changed from 5.3 to 10%. That would return the extra money they've been stealing from productivity gains.

        But fundamentally, we need to repaint this as a question of how to get wages and employment levels up. If we succeed there we don't have to change a thing about Social Security because that would vastly increase revenue.

        Except maybe we could lower the rates because they wouldn't need to be so high.

        •  Let's think liberally... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Liberal Thinking

          Most truly small businesses (not the ilk of the Koch's four hundred small businesses), like pizza places or real small business would be harmed by raising  the contribution level and the phoney small businesses like the Kochsuckers' wouldn't stand for it by requiring the legislators and media they own to just ignore any attempt.  The major corps in America, the one's that have a trillion and a half dollars in cash on hand and pay most of their employees shit, (AT&T tried to buy T-Mobile for $34 billion in cash w/no loans, just all cash, yet they pay most of their employees crap wages and their infrastructure is mostly already paid for and I know from working there they make obscene profits),  would not let the legislators they own  make such a change.

          Out numbering us in Congress, heck yeah, they own Congress.  So what do we have to lose or gain by screaming at legislators, because they don't listen anyway.

          Changing employer contributions to 10% is no different than lifting the cap or capping their benefit, it's a meaningless exercise in futility.

          And the same for getting wages and employment up.  W/corps making obscene profits while reducing employment and wages we're whistling in a wind storm.

          They will not increase employment or wages 'cause they're doing just fine as it is. The billionaires realize they can manufacture in the cheapest countries (heck they bought laws that pay them, w/our tax dollars,  to move manufacturing to the countries w/the worst or no labor protections, see where Myanmar is now on their list to make friends w/, ) and they have no interest in improving customer service cause they never use it.

          We're screwed and your suggestions as well as mine are only delusions.

          Do you really think they would increase the percentage employers must contribute or increase employment when they're making record profits w/o additional ee's or increase wages when we're all desperate for work at virtually any wage (just be glad they haven't gotten on the eliminate the minimum wage horse yet).

          And for SS, increasing employment and wages would take years if not decades and what about those who are getting screwed now. Raise the cap, cap the payout to the wealthy now (of course that's as unlikely as any other suggestion that would take a nickel from the wealthy).  We have to realize there are few if any rational, realistic solutions that don't involve dramatic efforts.  

          Think radically.  Liberally has gotten us into this untenable predicament and we're swirling down the drain faster and faster.

          Thinking liberally is so 1960's.  Reason, facts and reality have no impact.

          That's despondency speaking. See my sigline.
          Sorry for the outburst LT

          "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

          by BrianParker14 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 07:42:31 PM PDT

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          •  I Understand Your Despondency (0+ / 0-)

            But we have the opportunity to stop them. This is about ideas. They are dependent on ideas, but ideas spread on their own. They are trying to convince people that Social Security benefits have to be cut and we have to ultimately replace the whole system.

            It's a bad idea. But, put the right ideas out and they take on a life of their own. All members of Congress they own still have to be elected. What the public thinks matters.

            So, we need to put the right ideas out. It doesn't matter if you call them liberal, radical or anything else.

            The first matter is to stop stupid changes from being made. Undoing damage is more difficult than preventing it. The important thing here is to turn the conversation to wages and employment. That makes it difficult to justify cutting benefits. So, that's my focus.

            •  Thank you LT for replying. Yeah, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Liberal Thinking

              and w/chuckie and davie koch buying the LA Times, the Chicago Tribune and the Maryland paper and the TV swamping us w/the likes of Rendell, Simpson, Bowles, Durbin, NPR, CSPAN (npr and cspan are in the tank) and all their other outlets, I'm sure our ideas will get out there (sorry for the sarcasm).  Money talks and they have virtually all media outlets sown up.  We have this website, Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Chris Hayes, and ???? We don't even have Pelosi and Reid to be counted on for anything and our President is on their side and he isn't running for anything except his daughters inheritance.

              Short of something super dramatic, we don't have a prayer.
              Perhaps tens of thousands stalking every Dem in the Senate and House, no matter where they go, continuously for months w/o a break might convince them but I don't see talking to ourselves having much of an impact.

              We don't even have a consensus here about raising the cap. That's bizarre.

              Oh, and we have the ideas. Ideas aren't the problem. The problem is teh stupids have been taught to hate everything but what they should. They don't realize it's about class and not sex, age, color, geography etc. So much money has been spent schooling them on hating each other we couldn't possibly overcome their stupidity.
              They could be starving and still hate the poor guy next to them and salute the billionaire flying overhead.

              For me, it's about productivity that has been stolen for the past thirty years and raising the cap and capping the wealthy's take is simply just a return of stolen productivity.

              People here complain we shouldn't upset the wealthy cause they'll take everything away from us. Amazing.

              Ideas no longer take on a life of their own. Murder twenty angels in an idyllic upper middle class safe classroom and we can't even get our Senate leader to introduce a bill.  Ninety-one percent have the same idea, background checks, and we can't get that to the floor of the Senate. How are we gonna stop Obama from giving away SS to the people who will fund his daughters inheritance. I'm sure he's calculated what it will take to securely fund his heirs out to several generations (considering several iterations of grandchildren and great grandchildren it will take a few hundred million dollars which he's probably been assured will come to him if he just puts our future on the table).  And isn't it odd the repubs haven't grabbed it. 'Cause they don't want scraps, they want it all.

              My sigline reflects how I'm thinking.

              "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

              by BrianParker14 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 12:06:43 AM PDT

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              •  Buck Up! (0+ / 0-)

                I hear what you're saying, and it is tempting to let pessimism take over. They are systematically buying up the media.

                But I believe we have the advantage in the long run because we are building a national community. The process might be hard and messy. We can't even agree to the cap. But that hard process also makes the result solid.

                I believe in the end we will triumph because of what I call "Al Gore's Revenge". That's the social Internet, which allows us to form national communities, like Daily Kos.

                IMO the national community elected Barack Obama President, and re-elected him. It decided and then no amount of money from the right-wing could change that decision. And it did that based on his ideas and theirs.

                Our hope is in building community. One-way communication doesn't work in the social Internet. Only discussions like this one work, where one person works one-on-one with another to convince them. This process favors truth and it favors good ideas.

                Imagine the Koch's trying to get their ideas across in a forum like this, where their ideas are open to countervailing facts and intelligent critique. It doesn't matter how many dollars they have in their pockets. The ideas matter.

                It's important for us to build the community and to discuss our ideas here. Once the community has decided, no amount of money matters. That's the future, and I'm bullish on at least that part of it.

          •  Try 1911-1960's? (0+ / 0-)

            ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:17:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I agree get rid of the caps, but don't say the (2+ / 0-)

        rich cannot get social security.   Just make the maximum check you can get to be at 10 times the poverty level.

    •  Hire 23 million watch Boomers retire (0+ / 0-)

      Tha'll shrink the labor market big time. Raise Min wage, consistantly

      ...... Social Security blogathon March 25th thru March 29th. #HandsOffmySS FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 11:29:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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