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View Diary: When a nation says, 'We are sorry.' (238 comments)

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  •  Legal and safe, yes. Rare is not the word I'd use, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jplanner, Denise Oliver Velez

    though. There are far too many children in untenable situations and their interests need to come first.
    However, I think adoptions should be done with great care and thoughtfulness.
    Pregnant women considering adoption as an option should know their rights and have unpressured time to make the decision that is best for them and for their child.
    If a child is in a dangerous situation, there needs to be a thorough evaluation to see if the mother can be helped and thus keep mother & child together.
    However, given all that, if a child is in danger -- that child deserves our protection. And a child removed because of danger is not a piece of property that can be handed around to different people.
    Let me give you an example (real situation, but some things changed to protect anonymity). Two young children -- a baby and a toddler in a situation with a drug-addicted and dangerously neglectful mother. After several unsuccessful attempts to get the mother into treatment, the children were removed to a stable loving foster family. The mother moved out of state. Kids were with the foster family for four years (until the youngest was 4 and the older one was 6) where they did very well. Mother never contacted them during that time even though she could have called or sent cards or gifts. The foster family wanted to adopt them. At this point, their birth mother got her shit together, went into drug treatment, met a nice guy and got married, came back to the state and went to court to get her children back. Visits were started, the children threw fits, didn't want be with this woman they didn't know, missed their real parents (the family who had loved and cared for them for the past 4 years). The biological mother, although not a bad person, showed no understanding of why the kids were upset. The whole thing was heartbreaking.
    Despite a policy in the county of reuniting children with their biological parents, the judge saw (correctly, IMO) that the children would be greatly harmed by removing them from the loving stable environment they had been in for the last 4 years. They were not the property of their biological mother but had rights of their own that needed to be honored.

    Your children are not your children
    They are the sons and the daughters of life’s longing for itself
    They come through you but they are not from you
    And though they are with you they belong not to you

    You can give them your love but not your thoughts
    For they have their own thoughts, they have their own thoughts
    You can house their bodies but not their souls
    For the souls dwell in a place of tomorrow

    Sung by Sweet Honey & the Rock based on text by Kahlil Gibran.

    While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

    by Tamar on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 06:41:19 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  (safe legal and rare for abortion not adoption) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Denise Oliver Velez, Tamar

      used to work in an abortion clinic
      some women we counseled decided against abortion
      some kept their babies
      some opted for adoption especially if their pregnancy was farther along then they'd expected
      sometimes these women would come back or call us to say how they were and thank us. They were glad to have had the adoption option.

      It all comes down to CHOICE, once again, not coertion. For adoption as well as abortion.

      •  go ask them in ten years, jplanner (0+ / 0-)

        no, would you know unless you asked.

        you are seeing them while they are still numb.  the denial can last for quite a while.

        we are talking about a life long loss here.

        •  and yes (0+ / 0-)

          LEGAL, SAFE and RARE

        •  true, I only know how they felt at that time but (0+ / 0-)

          I know that many women think about their abortions
          and "what if" also.

          But you know the child or chld to be better when you have carried him for longer (like 9 months vs 2), surely. So the loss must be greater.

          I do know women over the course of decades that gave babies up for adoption and DID have lifelong regrets but still felt it had been the right decision.

          However those women Had Not Been COerced or pressured even by society. In fact they had bucked pressure to get an abortion.

          So these poor women in Australia and, I am sure some in the US especially decades ago, had their children ripped from them. TOtally understandable then that the heart is torn.

          As I said it is about choice and autonomy.

          I am not a parent but I have been a foster parent of babies and toddlers and have loved them like my own (as far as I know, they felt like an extension of me). I have had them suddenly without any warning taken away. IT is surely not the same as if you carried the baby to term but I think it does give me an inkling.

          I think the reason why I objected to "rare" with adoption is that I volunteered with an agency that worked with first time mothers and their babies...and tangentially therefore DSS (social services). So many of the women we worked with were not stable enough to be parents/mothers. They had not considered adoption because no one around them did that. Many were young and angry and had an abuse history. Many regretted not having an abortion (according to them). Many resented their motherhood. True it was a certain cross section of new mothers...

          but for those women, adoption was too rare. That's what I was thinking of when I objected to "rare".

          Again not coerced or pressured abortion or adoption or (as it was partially for some of these women) motherhood.

      •  That's the point of counseling -- to help the (0+ / 0-)

        pregnant woman figure out what she really wants to do.
        Sounds like a good place.
        My husband works with children who sometimes come from really terrible circumstances. He recently had a patient, high school age, who was pregnant. She wanted to keep the baby but was living in a group home (abusive parents). The therapists & school got together and planned out a program for her, which included her learning about children and child care. Apparently she & the baby are doing well and have support systems in place.
        She made her choice, a good one for her.
        When I was just a little older than that, I thought I was pregnant (I might actually have been, and had a early miscarriage, which is pretty common). I knew that I would get an abortion because I didn't want to go through a pregnancy and I didn't want to have a baby at that point in my life.
        Would have been the right choice for me.
        And finally -- a young woman who worked for our realtor told me that she had been adopted as a baby. She decided at age 18 to find her birth mother. Her parents were very supportive and she was successful in finding her. They have a nice relationship now. When I asked her whether she or her birth mother have any regrets, she said no, she had a wonderful childhood and has terrific parents. Her birth mother felt strongly that she was not in a place to raise a child at that time and her life has been good. All the different people in this young woman's life feel that they made the right choices for them.
        Three different choices made with self-knowledge and support.

        While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

        by Tamar on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 08:37:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  we are talking about (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      for profit infant adoption here.   mother is guilty of exactly no crime, no abuse, nothing.  in fact, she has no track record at all.  she is poor, and she is unmarried, and that's it.

      we are not talking about  foster care adoptions, and situations of abuse and neglect.

       these are not the same thing at all.

      please refrain from conflating the two

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