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View Diary: When a nation says, 'We are sorry.' (238 comments)

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  •  Not sure how this is relevant: (3+ / 0-)
    The scale of slavery in the rest of the world dwarfs ours.
    By what criteria?  Numerically?  The length of time slavery was permitted?  

    In any event, how does any of that matter?  This country permitted slavery for centuries.  The existence of the institution continues to have after-effects today.  So I fail to see how the date of slavery's abolition in Mauritania has any relevance to the question of whether or not the U.S. should be working on reconciling itself to its slaveholding past.

    "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

    by FogCityJohn on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 07:23:04 PM PDT

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    •  Numerically, longevity, cruelty. (0+ / 0-)

      You name it.

      And no, this country did NOT permit slavery for centuries.

      This country didn't even come into existence until 1789. This country went to war -- and sacrificed more than 350,000 souls -- to abolish slavery in 1861.  That finally became a reality in 1863, and a constitutional guarantee in 1865.

      The British and French colonies that preceded the formation of this country certainly did allow slavery -- and made good money from it.  Prior to that, man of the native peoples also practice slavery.

      None of that excuses the slave trade and the extent to which it flourished.  None of it diminishes the loss and suffering of slaves on our soil.

      Not in the least.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 08:00:33 PM PDT

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      •  Jeebus (3+ / 0-)

        Are you really going to try this argument:

        This country didn't even come into existence until 1789.

        The white people here before this country's technical foundation -- whom we sometimes call "our forefathers" -- practiced slavery.  The men who wrote our Constitution practiced slavery.  

        You're trying to minimize this country's responsibility for a brutal and inhumane practice, and frankly, you're doing a piss poor job of it.  I'd expect to see this kind of comment on a right-wing blog.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 08:11:00 PM PDT

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        •  Make up all the history you want, but some things (0+ / 0-)

          are not the realm of history.

          And -- so you'll know: SOME of hte men who wrote our Consitution practiced slavery and, when this country came into being, slavery was legal in much -- but not all -- of it.

          Nowhere have I minimized this country's responsibility.  I challenge you to find a single place where I have defended the practice of slavery in this country in any way shape or form.

          You can't do it because I haven't done it.

          At the same time, you want to make up your own facts, presumably because you get your jollies at thumping people on the chest and telling them how damned evil they are.

          Tell me how that's better.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Sun Mar 31, 2013 at 09:08:56 PM PDT

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      •  Slavery in the United States did not end (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mdmslle, zinger99, FogCityJohn

        with the emancipation proclamation.  As John notes - it didn't begin with the formation of the United States either.

        Read Douglas A. Blackmon. "Slavery By Another Name"
        or watch the documentary

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 01:00:51 AM PDT

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        •  Please check the topic of your article (0+ / 0-)

          It was about apologies by governments.  

          Would you, for example, have the United States apologize for slavery by the Native American peoples who practiced it?  Would you have the United States government apologize for the slaves that were sacrificed in rituals?

          Apologies for slavery prior to the formation of the United Slates would be due from the Governments of Great Britain, Spain, France, Portugal, and the Netherlands.

          A reasonable case can be made that the United States should own up to activity from 1783 on, even thought that was prior to the 1789 signing of the Constitution, so I'll back date to that.

          Lots of individuals come from families with a lot to apologize for, but that's a different matter.  I will happily aplogize for the misdeeds of my forebears if we ever find one who owned slaves.  I should hope that you would do the same.

          But seriously,  if 350,000 dead soldiers doesn't satisfy you, what will?  

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Mon Apr 01, 2013 at 05:50:58 AM PDT

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