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View Diary: "You think gays have rights?" (232 comments)

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  •  Just as disbelievers like to attempt to place (11+ / 0-)

    a fuzzy lens on parts of the Bible that express generosity, self-awareness, open-mindedness, compassion, egalitarianism, and other enlightened attitudes still badly wanting in today's world among today's humans -- even non-religious, a-religious humans.

    Even the Pharisees and Jesus sparred with competing Bible verses, so it's not as though the Old Testament's complexities, contradictions, and ambiguities, and the ability of different parties to cherry-pick for their own purposes, are a recent discovery.

    The problem is that, so far, the web of human beliefs and conflicts of purpose is not easily untangled.

    You ostensibly want moral simplicity and reductionism where there is none. Humans, billions of them alive on the same planet at the same time, aren't likely to be so convenient. If you could magically strip the species of any memory of religious belief, do you truly believe we would be simpler and more easily reduced; more pliable, obedient, and uniform; and less morally troublesome to you?

    I posit you have absolutely zero clue -- and neither do any of us -- what our nation would or wouldn't look like if it weren't for "the Christians," any more than you can guess at the character of the nation if our ancestors hadn't shipped in vast numbers of slaves from Africa, or if the secession of the South had been peacefully uncontested, or if English settlers had refused to allow the assimilation of immigrants from other than the British Isles, or if those before us had treated with the First Nations and bought our property rights fair and square.


    by raincrow on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 10:48:58 AM PDT

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    •  ??? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zinger99, maf1029, caul

      I don't understand what point your word salad is supposed to be making. It's nicely-formatted, though...

      It is time to #Occupy Media.

      by lunachickie on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 11:24:45 AM PDT

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    •  I'm pulling the bs card (18+ / 0-)

      Nonbelievers don't have any fuzziness about the good aspects of the Bible, of which we know there are many. What we take issue to is Christians who pick and choose which parts to pull out to support their bigotry.

      But nice try on the "both sides are bad" argument.

      Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

      by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 11:50:52 AM PDT

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      •  Both sides are bad (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, Ahianne, deminva, melo

        When the atheist side tries to make a person feel unwelcome among progressive circles just because of their faith.

        by DAISHI on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 12:54:55 PM PDT

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        •  Except that didn't happen here (7+ / 0-)

          Calling out hypocrisy is not treating believers terribly. Ignoring the history of how many have routinely cherry-picked the Bible to justify their hatred and evil is not being mean. It's being honest.

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 01:53:30 PM PDT

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        •  That's right, (7+ / 0-)

          you're the one being oppressed here because someone dared disagree with a religious belief that has state sanctioned holidays, that is practiced by 80% of the population, that is the norm, and so on.  Oh man, those wicked atheists and their atheist privilege!  Christ.

          •  You're sadly (0+ / 0-)

            Unable to distinguish personal responsibility for civil conduct from societal behavior as a whole.


            by DAISHI on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 09:03:52 PM PDT

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            •  What does that even (0+ / 0-)

              mean?  It doesn't seem to me that anyone has done anything here but disagree with certain religious beliefs.  Every other walk of life allows for points and views to be contested:  law, science, business, medicine, etc.  Religion seems to be the only sphere where mere disagreement or voicing of disbelief is seen as somehow abusive and oppressive.  This is one of the central ways in which religious power and oppression functions in the United States.  We're told that these are private matters and that they are never to be questioned, yet somehow the religious are able to enshrine their views in public displays, law, structures of government, etc.  Your response to the rather mild disagreement in this threat reflects that attitude and a standpoint of Christian privilege that gets a free pass in our country.  I'm sure you'll now go and talk about how mean an atheist was to you-- and you know nothing of my religious beliefs --and how they're just as bad as militant fundamentalists.  What you fail to notice is that you were the one that spoke up here in a rather privileged and sanctimonious way and others merely responded to you lack of polite behavior, coupled with your refusal to reflect on your social and political privilege in the United States was what prompted this response.  Seriously, reactions like yours are as bad as white men whining about reverse racism and sexism.  Reflect a little and contemplate how you come off.  Additionally, remember what Jesus had to say about wearing your religion on your sleeve, praying in public, speaking about your beliefs in public, and so on.  You're behaving like a sanctimonious Pharisee, while others are having their rights taken away and their very lives attacked by those that call themselves Christians.  Maybe a little perspective and compassion is in order?  Maybe it's not all about you?  Maybe you should do a little less whining about how your feelings were hurt and a little more listening to others and thinking about where this hostility might come from?  Sheesh, talk about narcissism.

        •  dkos welcomes both (0+ / 0-)


          were atheism as inclusive!

          why? just kos..... *just cause*

          by melo on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 06:01:47 AM PDT

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